• Metaphysics of Presence
    Understanding the metaphysics of presence can assist in this effort.
    — Mikie
    So, metaphysics of presence as opposed to what?
    — L'éléphant
    180 Proof
    As opposed to what is absent, hidden, concealed. Which is far greater than what’s merely present before us.

    I like to think of it as studying unconscious (absence) behavior as opposed to conscious behavior.
    Mikie
    :fire:
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    I'm "reading" Energy" in a "Metaphysical way" instead of a Physical way.Gnomon
    :sparkle: :roll: wtf
  • Metaphysics of Presence
    Understanding the metaphysics of presence can assist in this effort.Mikie
    So, metaphysics of presence as opposed to what?L'éléphant

    :chin:
  • Heidegger's a-humanism
    Philosophy has all too often been an assault upon everydayness. Originally in the ancient West, though, it was vitally concerned with the best way to live our lives. I think that's a worthy inquiry. I don't look to an unrepentant Nazi like Heidegger for guidance in that regard.Ciceronianus
    :up: :up:

    We live in and are part of an environment. Our minds are part of it because we're part of it. All we know, all we feel, all we do results from and are part of our interaction with it. That is what's "natural" to me.

    To the extent our interaction with the rest of nature indicates certain conduct and information is useful and beneficial, we may come to rely on it and it may become customary. But we should always be willing to accept that our judgments and conduct are subject to change when what is learned through further interaction establishes change is appropriate. What's customary may become inadequate or undesirable. I consider that to be common sense.
    Ciceronianus
    Wisdom. :fire:
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    So why not reify that which is invisible & intangible?Gnomon
    :roll: Misplaced concreteness? Occam's Razor?
  • Heidegger's a-humanism
    Why? Because there are two kinds of people ...Constance
    ... those who assume "there are two kinds of people" and those who don't.

    by ignoring what everydayness and its sciences has to say, in order to discover the essential structure of this everydayness
    To what end? :chin:

    "The essential structure of everydayness" seems ineluctable blindness to its presupposed "essential structure" ... like, to use a naturalistic example, an eye that must exclude itself from its visual field in order to see. Afaik, phenomenological reduction (i.e. transcendental deduction) is just an overly prolix way for the puppet (e.g. dasein) to show itself its strings (e.g. being-with-others-in-the-world-towards-death) that is only shocking or profound to Cartesians, subjectivists, and other mysterians.
    Those who know that they are profound strive for clarity. Those who would like to seem profound to the crowd strive for obscurity. For the crowd believes that if it cannot see to the bottom of something it must be profound. It is so timid and dislikes going into the water. — Freddy Zarathustra, TGS
    (Emphasis is mine.)
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    To All (wherevver you are): *Happy New Year*

    I wouldn't 'reify' energy as I wouldn't reify any other physical quantities.boundless
    :up: :up:
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    ... the Whole of which we human persons are a minuscule particle. It's as-if the metaphorical One is an ocean and I am a sentient molecule [drop] of water, ignorant of its own all-encompassing habitat.Gnomon
    :up: à la Spiniza's substance (natura naturans (i.e. "the Whole" ~ physical laws)) and modes (natura naturata (e.g. universes, bodies, minds)).
  • Is there anything that exists necessarily?
    “Only contingency is necessary,” when asserted universally, already relies on the unconditioned intelligibility it claims to exclude.Esse Quam Videri
    In other words, whatever is "asserted ... relies on" grammar (Ludwig W., Freddy N.).
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    Think of an intelligible order as a scheme or system of rationality. Within that order or map, things work a certain way, according to certain criteria.Joshs
    :up: Yes, "an intelligible order" more or less is a grammar for discursive practices (or like language games within a particular form of life).
  • Is there anything that exists necessarily?
    This only establishes conceptual possibility, not metaphysical possibility.Relativist
    Please clarify the difference between "conceptual" and "metaphysical" in this context.

    Also consider @Banno's comment here ...

    .https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/dec/29/new-orleans-brothers-priest-killing-child-sexual-abuse
  • Is there anything that exists necessarily?
    I take the OP as asking if there are any necessary individuals - things. Not "are there necessary propositions?" or "Are there necessary truths?".

    So set aside "Meillassoux's "Absolute" and look at

    every existing thing... can be conceived of as not existing... without contradiction (i.e. negating a "necessary thing").
    — 180 Proof

    ...which can be seen as an informal version of my more formal argument.
    Banno
    Exactly. :up:

    ... metaphysical necessity. The very act of conceiving ~X presupposes a stable intelligible orderEsse Quam Videri
    Btw, this (implicit) reification fallacy – ergo, substance duality – is merely reminiscent of Plato's question-begging (thereby unparsimonious and proto-Gnostic) "Theory of Forms" that as a consequence is imho more mythical than metaphysical.
  • Is there anything that exists necessarily?
    There's a small notion of necessity as that which must be the case in order for something else to be the case - If you would read this post, it is necessary that you read English. There is a broader notion of necessity as what is true in all possible worlds - that two and two is four. They are not the same.Banno

  • Non-Living Objects in an Idealist Ontology: Kastrup
    I don't agree that those terms do most coherently refer to representations or perceptual experiences. They don't refer to appearances but rather to what appears.Janus
    :up: :up:

    On this view, the persistence of objects or the world does not depend on individual observers, but on mind-at-large itself.Tom Storm
    Two questions:

    What does "the persistence of ... mind-at-large ... depend on"?

    Why assume that "the persistence of objects or the world ... depends on" anything at all?
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    have subjective and objective aspectsJoshs
    .... describes or does not describe an objective state of affairs?
  • Is there anything that exists necessarily?
    Is there anything that exists necessarily? — QuixoticAgnostic
    No. Only contingency is necessary (Q. Meillassoux's "Absolute") insofar as, without exception, every existing thing / fact (X) can be conceived of as not existing, or not being the case, (~X) without contradiction (i.e. negating a "necessary thing").
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    materiality is agential or ‘subjective’ in itselfJoshs
    ... which is or is not how things are objectively (re: noumena)? :chin:
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    ↪Wayfarer Since you seem to be incapable of cogent discussion in good faith, I'll leave you to wallow in your confusion.Janus
    Welcome to the club! :up:

    All our thinking is dualistic anyway. As soon as you start talking about all experiences of things being the experiences of a subject, you have already entered Cartesian territory ... Even saying that we do not see reality as it is in itself is a product of dualistic thinking and cements the dualism even further.Janus
    Exactly. :100:
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    Consciousness does emerge from structural relations of non conscious entities, and consciousness is the precondition for identifying those relationships in the first place. This circularity results in the hard problem, but the hard problem, like all problems, is epistemic. We, as conscious beings, may face an insurmountable barrier in explaining consciousness itself. But from this apparent epistemic barrier it cannot be concluded that consciousness has no naturalistic explanation. Just that we might never get to it.hypericin
    :up: :up:
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    My point was simply that Energy is not a tangible material substance, but a postulated immaterial causal force (similar to electric potential) that can have detectable (actual) effects in the real world : similar to the spiritual belief in ghosts.Gnomon
    Wooooooooooo :sparkle: :lol:
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    However, the subject is not.Wayfarer
    So what's your point?
  • Sensory Experience, Rational Knowledge and Contemplation: Are There Category Errors of Knowledge?
    My understanding of what Wilber means by contemplation is both of speculative reflection and experience of a mystical nature [ ... ] suggesting that meditation is 'a sustained instrumental path of transcendence'.Jack Cummins
    "Transcendence" to what end or for what purpose?

    His understanding of the absolute is ...
    And yet "Wilbur argues", which you cite, "sense and scientific reason cannot grasp the Absolute"?! Apophatics makes much more sense to me, Jack.
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    .
    subjectivity is not a possible object of perceptionWayfarer
    Yes, because "subjectivity" (like e.g. humanity or infinity) is merely an abstraction. Subjects, however, are concrete objects and directly or indirectly perceiveable as points out.
  • Heidegger's a-humanism
    There is a desire for immersion at play herePaine
    I think de-individualization is more precise than "immersion" describes what Heidegger is after.

    doubt this the work of this despicable, loathsome excuse for a human being had anything signi[fi]cant to do with the creation of Nazism. Rather, he supported it as best he could because it was consistent with his twisted romanticism and mysticism, and in the hope he would be considered its philosopher.

    Is this too over the top?
    Ciceronianus
    No, sir, that's quite fair actually. :smirk:

    Are right and wrong understood as indirect indicators of taking Being seriously ["authenticity"]?Tom Storm
    It would seem so.

    The problem for the misanthrope is to figure out how to survive the realization that Heidegger is your brother.frank
    As if Schopenhauer was a rambling, antisocial mystagogue ...

    It always struck me that populists don’t really do ideas, they do slogans.Tom Storm
    :up: e.g. 'Make A-holes Great Again'.
  • Heidegger's a-humanism
    The question is: did this longing to ditch rationality turn into in-humanism that set the stage for the Holocaust?frank
    In the wake of the catastrophic defeat of Kaiser's Germany, Heidegger's amoral (Levinas, Adorno) bifurcating of beings into "authentic" and "inauthentic" (Dasein and Das Man ... us and them) seems to have set up the latter as readymade scapegoats for redeeming (or 'purifying') the former. Imho, 'ir-rationality' did not cause mass murder so much as its willing stupification (Arendt) ironically made it much easier for "The They" to not question / not resist Das Führerprinzip (i.e. banality of evil).

    Btw, decades ago I'd found George Steiner's Martin Heidegger to be an excellent synopsis – I wonder how well Steiner's interpretation (or my own rationalist, anti-obscurant bias) has aged in light of more recent scholarship on the old Rektorführer.
  • Sensory Experience, Rational Knowledge and Contemplation: Are There Category Errors of Knowledge?
    the nature of the contemplative experienceJack Cummins
    Explain what you / Wilbur mean by this.

    Wilber argued[asserted],
    'Kant did not say God doesn't exist_ he said that that sense and scientific reason cannot grasp the Absolute.
    A mere truism. Even if this weren't the case, what cognitive or existential significance would "the Absolute" to non-absolute beings like us?

    ... three eyes, or modes of knowledge: the sensory or empirical mode, rational thinking and contemplation.
    Ken Wilbur's "new paradigm" isn't "new" at all. The above vaguely reminds me of Spinoza's three kinds of knowing (which he derives from his distinction of inadequate and adequate perceptions (or ideas)): imagination, reason and intuition – elaborated on in the article below:

    https://iep.utm.edu/spinoza/#SH4e
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    In what sense is our experience not part of the natural world? Why is there any problem with us learning about consciousness in others through inference? Much of scientific knowledge is gathered indirectly and without direct observation. Why is this situation any different? Speaking personally, I don't see that conscious experience is all that special. It's just one more thing for us to learn about. One more thing we encounter as we live our lives.T Clark
    :100:


    I do see language itself, as opposed to the world, as inherently dualistic.Janus
    :up:

    My main point was that there is no incoherence or inconsistency in thinking that the physical world existed prior to the advent of consciousness. Science informs us that it did. The fact that such judgement is only possible where there is consciousness (and language for that matter) I see as a mere truism.
    :up: :up:

    @Wayfarer
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    Chemical treatments for mental illness seem to show that consciousness is not primary.frank
    :100:

    Be honest now and say whether you believe disembodied consciousness is possible. I'm betting you [@Wayfarer] won't answer that question.Janus
    :smirk:
  • Michel Bitbol: The Primacy of Consciousness
    :up: :up: Yes, and therefore disembodied ("immaterial") consciousness doesn't make any sense – is just wishful / magical thinking.

    The question isn’t “Did the world exist before consciousness?” but “What does it mean to assert existence independently of the conditions under which existence is ascribed at all?”Wayfarer
    It means 'the map(maker) =/= territory' (i.e. epistemically ascribing has (a) referent(s) ontologically in excess of – anterior-posterior to – the subject ascribing, or episteme).
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    In the same way, energy is not a substance that composes matter. To make an analogy is like saying that coins (physical objects) are made of money (energy).boundless
    :100: Yes ... Merry Xmas.
  • What are you listening to right now?
    'Tis the season ...


    "Within You Without You" (5:05)
    Sergeant Pepper's ..., 1967
    writer George Harrison
    performer The Beatles


    "Watermelon Man" (6:29)
    Head Hunters, 1973
    writer Herbie Hancock, 1962
    performers Herbie Hancock and The Headhunters
  • What is the Significance of 'Spirituality' in Understanding the Evolution of Human Consciousness?
    "You are not a drop in the ocean; you are the entire ocean in a drop." ~Rumi

    union with spirit
    — Ken Wilbur
    Jack Cummins
    :roll:

    Advaita vedanta contemplates nonduality (atman = brahman). Spinoza reasons about 'metaphysical holism': that natura naturata (modes ... all facts, things, subjects), while epistemically distinct, are ontologically inseparable from natura naturans (substance ... whole of reality / laws of nature). Consequently as Einstein says [we are] "part of infinity". It is axiomatic for daoists and atomists that every individual entity participates in nature just as rain and waves are entangled with the ocean. "The cosmos is within us," Carl Sagan points out, "We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the Universe to know itself." One is many, many is one – by comparison, Jack, "union with spirit" seems shallow and redundant (like "New Age" nostroms tend to) in light of the history of rational thought.
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    EnFormAction : the power to transform potential Form (design, essence, information) into actual Shapes (structure, matter, hylomorph) and vice versa. Which is what Einstein's equation spells out : (E = MC^2).

    What we experience locally as Mass (matter) is proportional to the speed of light, which slows-down to form particles of rest-mass-matter.
    Gnomon
    :roll: :rofl:
  • Relativism, Anti-foundationalism and Morality
    Being social primates, it is instinctive in us to care about the way others see us, so it isn't a matter of "should care".wonderer1
    :up: :up:

    It boils down to feelings. I maintain this.AmadeusD
    An emotional – arbitrary – "justification" for e.g. betrayal or cruelty or rape. Lazy. :mask:
  • Relativism, Anti-foundationalism and Morality
    If morality is just about how you feel [@AmadeusD], why should anyone else care about your feelings at all, and why should you care about theirs?Tom Storm
    :up:

    [H]arming others makes me feel shit. It seems to do the same for the majority of people. That's good enough, and the best we can wish for imo.AmadeusD
    Your appeal to popularity here seems quite lazy.

    Given that everyone is (all sentient creatures are) vulnerable to "harming" (i.e. involuntary pain, dysfunction, loss ... suffering) is a natural fact, this provides a truth maker for the following moral claim: 'It is right to prevent preventable harm or reduce reduceable harm, whenever possible, and wrong not to do so'. IMO, like moral relativism / subjectivism / nihilism, emotivism renders empathy and sociopathy practically indistinguishable.
  • Cosmos Created Mind
    :eyes: Incorrigibly wrong as always.
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?

    "I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that." :nerd:

    (2022)
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/770096