Comments

  • A question about time measurement
    There is absolutely nothing mysterious here. It isn't philosophy, it's well established engineering and mathematics.fdrake

    Well hardly. Time remains physics biggest problem really.

    The central concept here is periodicity, or the propensity for something to repeat with high regularity. Regularity of measurements - oscillations in phase, periodic phenomena.fdrake

    Note how these are all spatialised concepts of time. Whether it is the rotation of a clock hand or the rotation that is a periodic sine wave, it is is about repeating a round trip locally. Time is measured by the how long it takes to complete a repetitive motion. Going around in a little circle zeros the clock to make a cycle. The hand travels forever and winds back up crossing the same spot.

    A problem with spatialised time is that it inherits the symmetry of spatial dimensionality. It makes no difference whether the clock hand rotates clockwise of counterclockwise. And yet time has an arrow that points in a direction. Spatialised clocks can’t measure that essential quality of actual temporal duration - the fact that the symmetry is broken.

    But there is the other angle we could employ to measure time. And that would be in terms of energy, or entropy. A thermometer could measure time as falling temperature.

    And indeed that is how we now measure the age of the universe. We read it off in terms of the average temperature of the cosmic background radiation.

    The cosmic time is currently 2.725 degrees kelvin.
  • Nagel's 'Mind and Cosmos'
    I'm a panpsychist who agrees with this conception of substance. If I understand you, of course, which I probably don't.bert1

    I was arguing that the Aristotle's hylomorphic story on substance can be read two ways. And the radical one here would be the "top-down" individuation version.

    The panpsychic version would instead be the more familiar bottom-up story where substance is a stuff with properties. The only difference with panpsychism is that all stuff comes with two distinct classes of property - the material and the mental.

    The top-down story is instead "mind-like" in stressing the role of formal and final purpose in the act of individuation. So Being is the result of constraints imposed on potentiality. Concrete material stuff is produced by acts of individuation that limits formless "material" potential. And material is in quotes as ultimately the notion of potential - Aristotle's prime matter - has to be as matterless as it is formless.
  • A question about time measurement
    Hah. Yes you are right. Complete brain fart to call it radioactive decay. I was meaning the radiative decay of electron transitions in atomic clocks.
  • A question about time measurement
    Maybe a sundial then. That would obviously work any time, any place.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    You’ll have to try harder than that if you’re wanting to troll me MU.
  • A question about time measurement
    What alternative did you have in mind? Chinese water clock?
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    Yep. Sounds legit. Can't imagine anyone not believing that. Snore...
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    The confident predictions of science providing a naturalistic 'theory of everything' seem to be getting more, not less, remote.Wayfarer

    That confident assertion would be more believable if it were backed up by some reasons to show science has been failing to make continual progress.

    Only about a century ago, atoms were still half-regarded as a fiction. Now we can blow up the planet with nuclear bombs. :)

    As far scientific cosmology is concerned, I am aware that at least some respectable scientists entertain the idea that 'The Big Bang' might have been one of a series.Wayfarer

    Only half a century ago, no-one had reason to be certain that the Cosmos was even created once by a Big Bang.

    In which case, we're back at the Myth of the Eternal Return and a cyclical cosmos which, for unknown reasons, seems to have formed the backdrop of ancient Indian cosmology.Wayfarer

    And so you just reveal how you are happy with any old theory - just so long as it chimes with your own metaphysical preferences.

    The same with panspermia and any other half-baked speculation that gets a good run in the popular press.
  • A question about time measurement
    That's why we need numerous different types of clocks. Each has its own peculiarities.Metaphysician Undercover

    Nope. We need the single best process that could be used at any time and any place. Radioactive decay would be that. Or some similar "free" quantum process.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    It ought to give pause to any form of physicalism that such questions are still so wide open.Wayfarer

    It should give far more pause to the peddlers of metaphysical stories that "can't even be wrong".

    What you are saying is science knows that the Big Bang is a story of symmetry and symmetry-breaking. It even has mathematical theories backed up by experimental confirmation of just how much symmetry-breaking is being delivered by particular physical mechanisms. And so now, the job is finding the machinery to explain the amount of symmetry-breaking that is known to be missing.

    You do realise that you only hear about these "crises in physics" because physics is right on the doorstep of an answer?

    It has a range of candidate theories - any number of them generated by its armies of theoreticians. It has quantified the amount of "missing information" it might looking for. It is searching for what it knows has to be there - some known unknowns. And all it needs is a few billion of your tax-payer dollars to take the next step.

    The cosmological constant problem and the hierarchy problem are just the same. Physics is advertising the work it could get going with if you give it the grants.

    It may indeed be the case that the physics community will prove that on these ones "it just doesn't have a clue".

    But when it comes to antimatter, Dirac already predicted positrons, or anti-matter electrons, had to be the case back in 1928. That just fell out of the maths of relativistic quantum physics.

    Then once the Big Bang became a thing, everyone immediately knew that there had to be some mechanism for favouring particles over their anti-particles for particles to even exist. It is was as obvious as stumbling into a city in a forest and asking, well who built this?

    Sakharov defined the three symmetries which would have to be broken to fit the facts - particle number, charge and/or parity, and the thermodynamic arrow of time.

    So you must end up with more than one than the other (otherwise any pair would mutually annihilate). And then time symmetry must be broken, otherwise the Universe could grow hotter again and just melt any matter particles.

    So the critical part of the machinery must be charge/parity. The finger pointed at the maths of intrinsic spin. Something about that had to be the key - the explanation for why a hot swamp of Big Bang radiation would produce slightly more of one kind of matter than the other.

    And so since the 1960s, science has chewed is way through a lot of theories, a lot of experiments. The level of understanding has become spectacular.

    But to keep climbing towards the critical energy range is an exponential effort. Testing weak force level theories is easy-peasy compared to achieving the collider energies to test strong force level theories.

    So stop being so cheapskate and vote Cern the trillions it needs to get on with the job. ;)
  • A question about time measurement
    So we can simply take two objects that are ''in sync'' and take that as a measure of regularity? How do we check for synchronization? I think it'll be imprecise.TheMadFool

    SX is wrong if he suggests the clocks could be used to check each other in this fashion in any absolute sense. But in a relative fashion, that's fine.

    You can definitely tell if two clocks start to beat a different time. And from there, you can make an inductive case for why that might be. One clock might be faulty. Or in fact someone might be secretly accelerating it. And one of those explanations might have the grounds to be the more likely.

    The same is the case if the two clocks keep perfect synchrony. It could be that one is being accelerated, and yet also it is faulty to exactly the degree needed to compensate. We are now talking of something that both remains a possibility yet is completely unlikely. And so two clocks are better than one as a constraint on such uncertainties.
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    There is no evidence to the contrary. That's how universal claims work. See the Kant excerpt again with that in mind...creativesoul

    Yeah. Sounds legit.
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    Provide the evidence for the argument. I think that's how arguments usually work. :)
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    One example to the contrary is all it takes...creativesoul

    The contrary of what? It is your lack of any properly grounded claim that I drew attention to.

    You contradict yourself to the degree you confuse metacognition as a semiotic position.

    You could try to rescue your claim that writing makes a critical semiotic difference when it comes to perception. That simply speaking - simply an oral culture - isn't enough.

    I already agree - with the literature :) - that literacy does make a difference. Just not a critical one in terms of human perception.

    So continue to talk and act like a crackpot. I've done my best to help you sort it out.
  • A question about time measurement
    As I understand it, the Planck constant is defined in terms of meters^2 per kilogram per second.fishfry

    If you check it out, you will see that "the Planck time comes from dimensional analysis".

    So you may as well set every value to 1. The dimensioned units fall out of it. We are talking only of the reciprocal relations that connect the three corners of a triad - c, G and h. We are talking about a relation with irreducible internal complexity.

    So we peered into the heart of nature and found - this bare triadic relation. We have G to scale any departure from continuous flatness, h to scale any departure from discrete curvature, and c to scale the "rate" at which the G and h can "communicate".

    So what we call "time" is an aspect of a triadic knot, a fundamental hierarchical relation.

    In simplistic terms, the Planck time is the view of the knot that gets emphasised when you draw out its knotted relation in this fashion - hG/c. (The fuller equation is (hG/c^5)1/2.)

    So the dimensioned units do drop out of the story. You can set all the units involved to 1. And then you are left with this triadic knot that ties together three things in irreducible/reciprocal, fashion - h, G and c.

    So time doesn't "exist" itself in some fundamental Newtonian way. It is emergent from this triadic relation. The equation for the Planck time is the formula for making that particular kink in the knot "flat enough" to act as a measurement baseline.
  • A question about time measurement
    Doubts of the uniformity of nature are theoretical. They are 'silly.' But they are fascinating.t0m

    How so? It is a metaphysically logical position.

    Nothing can be definitely talked about except in terms of being measurably "other". If you want to talk about non-uniformity - as in a rate of time that could vary - then there is no choice but to talk about that in contrast to a rate that is uniform.

    It isn't some unjustified whim. It is the way metaphysical-strength logic works.
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    You have a certain aversion to bearing any burden. That fact doesn't bode well for you.creativesoul

    You claimed the hard distinction. You can provide the evidence to support your claim.

    I say pick up any anthropological discussion of the issue and you will see folk talking about how literacy makes a big difference - particular to the fostering of a "theoretical" mindset over the preliterate "narrative" mindset - and yet they don't claim some hard difference in terms of "metacognition" .... itself an abused term that doesn't even go to the question of linguistic scaffolding, oral or otherwise.

    So I can't just cite some experiment or book here. Your tangle of crackpottery goes off in too many self-contradicting directions. Having pointed out the silliness of talking in terms of metacognition, I also then pointed out a further silliness in terms of treating written texts as critical to the human mental difference ... when it comes to what is different about human perception in relation to animal perception.

    But good luck getting your thoughts written up and published, revolutionising the course of psychology as your reveal your great hidden truth.
  • A question about time measurement
    But the definition of a second, that's not a part of nature. That's something humans did.fishfry

    So the Planck constant is a social construction and not a part of nature? -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_time
  • A question about time measurement
    Is this relativity itself relative? Or understood as an absolute?t0m

    Of course it is itself relative. It's a scientific theory and so accepts an internalist inductive argument - the triadic arc of abductive hypothesis, deductive theory, and inductive confirmatory test.

    If it claimed anything absolute, that would be externalism.

    And was it not established on an assumption of the uniformity of nature?t0m

    Again, what else could count as a reasonable hypothesis? To explain differences that make a difference, you have to presume some baseline where any differences don't. That is what makes measurement even a possibility.

    And if science didn't work, we would have given it up long ago (and never in fact arrived at where we are now.)
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    Well, not really - there's still the outstanding problem of dark matter.Wayfarer

    Dark or bright, we know it is matter. If it were anti-matter, it would be blowing you to shit right now.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    Just by way of footnote to the above, abstracts of the other two 'greatest problems'Wayfarer

    Science is a work in progress. Shock horror.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    I don't understand your concern. You'll have to explain.

    Anti-matter exists. We can create it. But matter dominates the visible Universe. We can measure that.

    So there is an asymmetry - a symmetry-breaking - which is a foundational issue for cosmology and particle physics.

    And also an actual symmetry-breaking mechanism has been found for the weak force. Nobels have been awarded.

    The link talked about how the search was going in regards to the strong force.

    So I'm not seeing what you think might be the problem.
  • A question about time measurement
    it's easy to imagine a 'smug quietism' misreading genuine logical tensions as language on holiday, complacently waiting for the acknowledgement of such tensions to become conventional, respectable.t0m

    But this particular issue has had really heavyweight analysis within the metaphysics of physics.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hole_argument
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del_metric
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_argument

    Einstein, Godel and Mach are some pretty impressive thinkers. If physics doesn't seem to worry too much about "the speed of time", it is because analysis says "everything is relative".
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    There is a vast literature on this. I could go digging for the best lay summary I guess.

    Here is a reliable source that is specific to the proton magnetic moment issue - https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/c-p-t-and-their-combinations/

    Very surprisingly, CP is not significantly violated by the strong nuclear force, and no one knows why. We know the strong nuclear force does not violate CP symmetry very much because of a certain property of the neutron, called an “electric dipole moment”.

    Now, how big would you expect the dipole moment of a neutron to be? Well, the neutron has a radius of about 10-13 cm, so you’d expect D should be about that size. And it consists of quarks, anti-quarks and gluons; the gluons are electrically neutral, but the quarks and anti-quarks have electric charges: 2/3 e (up quarks), -1/3 e (down quarks), -2/3 e (up anti-quarks) and +1/3 e (down anti-quarks). So you might expect q to be about that size. So you’d expect the neutron to have an electric dipole moment with a size in the vicinity of 10-13 e cm. That’s about a million times smaller than the dipole moment of a water molecule, mainly since the radius of a neutron is a million times smaller.

    Actually there are some subtle effects which make a more accurate estimate a little smaller. The real expectation is about 10-15 e cm.

    But if the neutron had an electric dipole moment, this would violate T, and therefore CP, if CPT is even an approximate symmetry. (It also violates P.) So if CP and CPT were exact symmetries, then the electric dipole of the neutron would have to be exactly zero.

    Of course we already know that CP is not an exact symmetry; it’s violated by the weak nuclear force. But the weak force is so weak (at least as far as it affects neutrons, anyway) that it can only give the neutron an electric dipole moment of about 10-32 e cm. That’s far smaller than anyone can measure! So it might as well, for current purposes, be zero.

    But if the strong nuclear force, which holds the neutron together, violates CP, then we’d expect to see an electric dipole moment of 10-15 e cm or so. Yet experiment shows that the neutron’s electric dipole moment is less than 3 × 10-26 e cm!! That’s over ten thousand million times smaller than expected. And so the strong nuclear force does not violate CP as much as naively anticipated.

    Why is it so much smaller than expected? No one knows, though there have been various speculations. This puzzle is called the strong CP problem, and it is one of the three greatest problems plaguing the general realm of particle physics, the others being the hierarchy problem and the cosmological constant problem.
  • A question about time measurement
    I don't expect to be suddenly wiped out by a change in the 'laws' of nature, but I have yet to see a way around Hume's 'problem.'t0m

    Where there is belief, doubt is also possible by definition. Saying A always logically permits not-A if A is in fact a meaningful thing to assert.

    So the problem of induction isn't really a problem. If we couldn't doubt, how could we say we believed?

    And then uniformity is just a reasonable assumption - the rational bottom-line. How can we measure a difference except against a baseline of indifference? We can't even properly, logically, conceive of a universe in which time ran faster or slower unless we first conceive of it running with some rate that would be, by contrast, constant - the rate without any difference.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    To what in particular? I traversed a heck of a lot of ground there. If your reply is well-intentioned - you are actually curious - then sure I can dig out the supporting books or papers.
  • A question about time measurement
    How would we know 'officially' if the transitions were slowing down or speeding up?t0m

    We know radioactive decay makes a good clock as we also know the physics that could change its rate.

    So we have relativity theory which says everything is fine as long as we share the clock's inertial reference frame. If the clock were to get accelerated, then it would read off time differently.

    And we have quantum theory to tell us that radioactive decay is an intrinsically independent process. It has a statistics which is "internal" - ruled by a constant of nature. Although again, we could affect that by "observing the decay continuously", preventing its spontaneous probabilistic decay - something called the quantum zeno effect.

    So in principle, the "clock of the universe" could speed up or slow down and we couldn't notice it. But it is the fact itself that we couldn't notice a difference that then means there ain't anything to worry about - except people's metaphysical hankering for externalist accounts of reality.

    We have rules - relativity and quantum theory - to handle the way time can be stretched or broken in ways we can notice. We can understand how clocks can tell a different time because of physical differences. And so, to the degree we remove those difference-making conditions, our clocks will "run true".

    This may only be an internalist truth. But in the end, only internalism makes sense as epistemology.
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    How many trees are there, one or ten?Banno

    Still peddling this false calculus?

    For a realist, the question is do all accounts converge. And clearly those of the poetic, the insane, the asleep, the infant, the non-english speaking, etc, may not.

    So the realist can define what is normal in a measurable tendency of normal minds to converge. The teacher can gather the class and ask the kids to count the trees. Peer pressure can be relied on to produce "the right answer" after a period.

    But normative behaviour is all that has actually been demonstrated. Pragmatism is the best realism can achieve. To not admit to the epistemology in operation - to simply play the teacher barking "count the damn tree" - is the disingenuous language game we all know as direct realism.

    And that is odious and oppressive behaviour. Just like any social norming that can't acknowledge its epistemological basis.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    Or alternatively 'no reason to assume the universe is anything but a contingent accident'.fdrake

    But an essential handedness has been found in the weak force. And the explanation is mathematical - chiral symmetry and its breaking by the Higgs mechanism.

    But not "enough" symmetry-breaking has been found in that one mechanism. So it would be useful to find a similar contribution from the strong force.

    Anyway, the working presumption is that the necessary symmetry-breaking asymmetry is not accidental but an exact mathematical feature that always "lurked" in the Big Bang's particle making. Things couldn't have been different.

    You've got to hand it to nature. Who would have thought that the mathematics of existence would have to embed the twist that meant all the positive mass particles were clunky great big triplet entities - protons - and all the negative ones were little point-like electrons?

    This baked-in symmetry difference built in a physical asymmetry which - once the Big Bang had expanded and cooled enough for it to be stably expressed - guaranteed things could evolve to be more complex.

    And indeed, life itself depends fundamentally on the fact of this size-difference in the charged particles. Life could happen as protons are too fat to squeeze through membranes. Life could develop as there was a size asymmetry it could exploit to control the flow of charge and thus extract work from that controlled flow.

    So everything about existence comes back to symmetries and their breaking. The Universe as we know it was mathematically pre-ordained.
  • CERN Discovers that the Universe Ought Not to Exist
    So much for 'symmetry breaking' :-}Wayfarer

    What are you rolling your eyes at? Do you think the symmetry ain't actually broke or something?

    The very fact that Cern can conjure up anti-matter to test is a demonstration that the symmetry breaking exists. And when matter and anti-matter annihilate back into a shower or radiation, that demonstrates also that the symmetry exists.

    It is just that proton and anti-protons are identical in their magnetic moment, just as they are with their charge and mass. So the source of the symmetry-breaking ain't that.
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    if you want to argue that preliterate hunter gatherers aren’t skilled at transmitting cultural metacognitive thinking via their oral skills, then you show me any such evidence.apokrisis
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    Ground breaking. Wish I could be there.
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    Wow. The nuclear passive aggressive option! Yeah, go for it.

    Rorty. The everyman’s punching bag. X-)
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    That's not quite how I would say it, but not far from what I would sayBanno

    So I am right. It just pains you to admit it.

    What you call realism is simply pragmatism. Language use creates the observer along with the observable. Objective truth is simply belief that is fit for purpose.
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    All this just to show that there is a deal of ambiguity in the questionBanno

    Nope. Now you are just trying to bypass the irreducible self refential complexity of language use to point in its other direction - thus hoping to point attention away from my demolition of direct realism just a post ago.

    Look, you exclaim, over here we discover a lurking beholder. Ain’t that so homuncular.

    Yes, Banno, reference is always self referential like that. A relation has two ends. There must be a context, a reference frame, which grounds any pragmatically successful ostensive act.

    So, yes, look back from the thing being pointed at, and we discover the “self” that beholds it. The thing exists as an object of perception to the degree there is this anchoring other.

    But is this self real? Well, it certainly develops a certain invariant reality as an interpretive habit.

    So we are back into pragmatism as usual - the destination that Witti was trying to reinvent after having its truth whispered by Ramsey in his logical atomist ear.
  • Nagel's 'Mind and Cosmos'
    As I understand it, the philosophical understanding of 'substance' has never been allied to its common understanding as "stuff", so it's not at all clear what you are actually referring to here with your " But it’s all a colossal mistake, a category error, a misreading".Janus

    Surely Aristotle’s concern for “thaten” does reflect the folk metaphysics search for an ur-stuff. Substance became defined hylomorphically as in-formed matter. So substance is a stuff with inherent properties or potential.

    I would agree that there also lurks a more sophisticated reading of Aristotelian substance.

    If instead the focus is on individuation, then the substantial can be taken to mean simply the individuated. Substance is about unbounded potential becoming concretely constrained.

    So drill down to the root of being and - if existence is pure individuation - then the ur-stuff is the radically unindividuated. The Apeiron.

    So there is the conventional definition of substance - the ur-stuff debate that leads to ectoplasmic dualism or panpsychism. Then there is the flip version of hylomorphism where existence is the individuated, and thus quite a different story of constraints on unbound freedoms needs to be told.
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    the multiplicity of trees is implicit in the question raised by the OP.Banno

    But is the tree mental when we actually perceive one (see, smell, touch, hear it fall in the woods, etc)?Marchesk

    So is it an actual multiplicity of objects that is implied, or the irreducible self-referentiality of perception? Are we pointing at several kinds of tree, or is the issue - as I have highlighted - that any act of pointing is always a pointing in two directions.

    In pointing from the speaking self, or the linguistic culture, or the scientific reference frame, we are making a claim about a pragmatic or interpretative relation.

    So we don’t have to worry about a multiplicity of objects. We only have to pay heed to the epistemic fact that pointing is self referential in an irreducible fashion.

    Direct realism formally dies at that point. Only pragmatism remains.
  • Do we behold a mental construct while perceiving?
    Seems overly complicated.Banno

    Or the truth irreducibly complex. Epistemology involves self-reference. The reason for the irreducible complexity is hardly hidden here.

    Look, I know your favourite language game is trapping folk into using a language game in which the realist metaphysics are the already baked-in presumption.

    “Come along children, let’s count how many trees we can all see. Let’s move away from all these wild-eyed people questioning the epistemic root of such language use.”

    You’re a one trick pony, Banno. You just keep setting the same little snare, hoping to trap another unwary passer by.
  • Has Neoliberalism infiltrated both the right and the left?
    If your preferred economics is distributionism, that is pretty much what the relocalisation and social entrepreneur crowd are advocating as an antidote to corrupt neoliberalism - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_enterprise

    So a smart government could get in behind an alternative.
  • Neural Networks, Perception & Direct Realism
    What? Are you saying hunter gatherer tribes lack metacognition? Are you saying hunter gatherers tribes aren’t preliterate cultures?

    So yes, I have no problem with the idea that literacy made another huge difference. That too is well studied - a routine anthropological fact, even if not a politically correct one.

    But if you want to argue that preliterate hunter gatherers aren’t skilled at transmitting cultural metacognitive thinking via their oral skills, then you show me any such evidence.

    Meanwhile, read up on how oral communication is employed - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5372815/