Banned Ying — Baden

Too bad. He didn't show up often, but when he did, he usually had interesting things to say.

It's a very broad brush relative to the OP. — Baden

I have no problem with that. I was just curious.

romanticize ebooks in 50 years — Hanover

We've been reading text in physical form for more than 5,000 years. A little regret is reasonable.

I'll say to you what I said to @Baden - This all seems plausible. Is there justification that it's true, or is it just a general sense of history, society, and culture?

This all seems plausible. Is there justification that it's true, or is it just a general sense of history, society, and culture?

Also, you can't loan or borrow electronic books.
— T Clark

You can actually. — Heracloitus

I was talking about lending them to or borrowing them from friends, but you're right. The best of all is Libby. If your library is a member, you can download books and magazines directly. There is even an extension to Chrome called "library extension" that will tell you whether the book is available from the library when you're on Amazon or other book websites. Then you can download it directly from the computer.

Ebooks are real and ebooks are books. — Jamal

Sure, but there's something beautiful about a wall full of paper books. It feels like you're rich. Like money in the bank. Also, you can't loan or borrow electronic books. Also, going to the library or book store is a social event.

Just sayin.

Funny. And sad on my part, perhaps. Or not. I'm not sure. — Noble Dust

No, not sad. I still love books and used to love reading them. Now, when I do, I find myself tapping on the page to look up the word. I'm pretty lazy. If it weren't for Kindle, I wouldn't look up words. With Mieville, you have to in order to get the full value. That's especially true of "Perdido Street Station."

unless dense means constant use of obscure words to which no one knows the meanings. — Noble Dust

I wouldn't want to read a Mieville book on paper. I need Kindle so I can look up all the words. His vocabulary is incredible but it never feels artificial or pedantic.

I found it exuberant and fun, and dense only in its profusion of monstrous detail. — Jamal

Fun? Certainly playful. Dense - every page felt like a chapter. I'd say I had to look up a word every two or three pages. I see that as a good thing.

Is Perdido the one? — Noble Dust

I don't think so. It's dense, long, and pretty bleak. The writing is great, but it took me two tries. The Mieville book I like best is "Railsea." Yes, I think "The City and the City" is more accessible than most of the others I've read. It's the most conventional I guess, but it's still got that Mieville crookedness. His way of making impossible worlds seem normal.

I haven't read "Last Days Of New Paris." I guess I should... Just downloaded it from my library. Ain't technology wonderful. Except they don't have it in Kindle. I had to fiddle around to make it work.

sometimes I am not so wise. — wonderer1

Often I am not so wise.

I find pseudoscience debunking to be providing a positive contribution. — wonderer1

When this kind of thing comes up in a thread, I generally make my case once or twice and then bow out. I don't see any reason to disrupt the conversation. Please don't take that as criticism of you.

I don't think I'm providing any positive contribution to this thread, so I'll bow out.

The claim in the OP isn't that behavior can cause damaging genetic changes that cause disease. It is that human behavior can cause positive genetic changes that will increase life expectancy. It mostly talks about the general affects of ageing not genetic causes of disease. It also claims "...there is a direct link between the mind and DNA."

Yes, I agree. There is evidence to show that smoking causes cancer.

If the mind can exert positive epigenetic pressure via behaviour to promote the actvitiy of these genes, then the mind exerts a protective and reparative force on DNA. — Benj96

Do you have any references that provide data to justify this claim? I can believe that changes in behavior will improve health and help let us live longer. Unless you have evidence, I am skeptical that it can change our DNA.

I didn’t like the way it degenerated into a monster hunt. The world building was great, the plot, not so much. It felt a bit like an action movie: fascinating premise, then boring. — Jamal

I know what you mean when you say monster hunt. It really was a change in style and tempo. It did feel a bit anticlimactic. As for plot - it made me think of "Titus Groan." When you and I discussed that, I said the plot doesn't matter. You disagreed. I feel the same way here. I was never bored.

For novels, I prefer paperback (or hardcopy). — Manuel

Miellville is one of those writers I wouldn't read except electronically. His use of language is skilled and idiosyncratic. On the other hand, it never feels forced. I find myself looking up words every page or so. I wouldn't do that in a paper copy and I'd miss much of the writing.

Perdido Street Station by China Miéville — Manuel

I finished it. I don't know anyone who writes better. His language is wonderful, visual.

So do you have a kindle? I noticed it is on sale for $2.99 in kindle format on Amazon right now, at least in the US.

Well I'd say looking at things simplistically and assigning blame on the basis of our simplistic 'understanding' of things is just something all of us social primates do, at least from time to time. — wonderer1

Agreed.

Is this your way of saying you never understood what the thread was about or you never understood what incels were? I think it's fair to be curious about who you think you're going to bat for here. Would you also demand compassion for Nazis and white supremacists? Or is it that you never meant incels but as Hanover has specified, unaligned marginalized young men who are not misogynistic etc. I think it's reasonable to ask that that be specified considering there's a significant difference there. I don't believe it is at all humane to demand sympathy for victimizers over victims. Quite the reverse. (Not a mod issue btw, no.) — Baden

Point out the comments you find offensive and I'll respond.

It's difficult to know if you and T Clark have realised how offensive is the idea that women (especially) should be compassionate towards an organized online group ("incels", the subject of this thread) that considers them to be semi-sentient animals who want to be and should be raped by them and otherwise enslaved to give them pleasure. — Baden

A couple of thoughts:

I've gone back through my posts in this thread and I didn't find any where I suggested compassion towards "an organized online group ("incels", the subject of this thread) that considers them to be semi-sentient animals who want to be and should be raped by them and otherwise enslaved to give them pleasure."

Are you suggesting I should not express opinions you find offensive? Did I write anything in my responses that violated site guidelines? Let me be clear - I'm not writing my posts to be provocative or troublesome. I'm not a troll. I believe the things I've written. I think they are reasonable and humane.

Whatever I've said about my posts are equally true for @BC's. His support for and understanding of the oppressed is unique here on the forum. For you take him to task is a joke.

Then you need to start being a bit more clear what it is you disagree with and on what basis. — unenlightened

An old joke - Shut up he explained.

It's looking like you have no idea what is being talked about. 8 pages in that is not a great look. — unenlightened

The fact I don't agree with a lot of what is being written here is not a sign I don't understand what is being discussed. And I haven't been aiming for "a great look." You are one of the people I respect most here on the forum, but I don't appreciate you trying to shame me into shutting up. The fact that you, of all people, have done that shows me it is important to keep trying to get my points across.

Feeling disempowered implies feeling a desire or need for power. — unenlightened

Perhaps, but it doesn't imply "...that there is a male need/right to heterosexual sex that society, (women specifically,) ought to provide and does not.

I actually asked the spokesman of the the Incel-movement these questions, and he told me that they want nothing less than world-domination. — ChatteringMonkey

A few years ago there was a nasty, bitter discussion which proposed the same measures you are describing, but with the roles reversed - only women would be allowed and men would be allowed to die out. It was called, ironically enough, "A plan for world peace" and it was started, ironically enough, by a man. The thread has been deleted, but there is a discussion I started in response.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/3366/should-a-proposal-to-eliminate-men-from-society-be-allowed-on-the-forum/p1

A well-thought-out and humane post.

The incel is male, and self-defining as disempowered ( because 'involuntary') as a sexually active person. This immediately implies that there is a male need/right to heterosexual sex that society, (women specifically,) ought to provide and does not. — unenlightened

I don't think this is true at all. Feeling disempowered doesn't imply anything. It is a common and understandable reaction to an unsatisfying life.

I've no idea why it's so commonplace. My intuition asks that if self loathing is commonplace, what makes so many cis het white men hate themselves? — fdrake

I don't think it's just men, I think it's all kinds of people - perhaps everyone to some extent. It just so happens we are talking about a particular manifestation that is specific to men. Societal expectations are hard to deal with. That's certainly true for me and it has had a damaging effect on my life and happiness. I've been fortunate in how things have worked out. It could have been otherwise.

Good post.

Any alternative groups are easily defined. Eg. Feminism exists much more easily and effectively as a movement in counter to an overtly mysoginistic society than it would if the society was already completely equal between sexes. If every had equal and fair treatment, what need would there be for any movements? — Benj96

I don't agree with this, but this is not the place to take it up.

I quite understand that you'd rather not be an advocate for the claims that were made about Christianity. There's no reason to be concerned about that, really. It's quite alright. — Ciceronianus

I don't know enough about @ChatteringMonkey's claims to have an opinion. They seem plausible. I intend to follow up with the source he referenced. Unlike many here on the forum I don't have any antipathy toward religion. I suspect you can't separate it from other social factors when considering social history.

A discussion of the contributions of the Christian religion to Enlightenment values and the rights of individuals--especially those of women--seems to me out of place in a thread about incels. It's true, though, that the conduct of many Catholic priests serve as examples of the potentially harmful results of sexual frustration, though primarily to children, not women. So perhaps there is a connection of a sort. — Ciceronianus

@ChatteringMonkey isn't the one who brought religion into the discussion. That was @Christoffer. Then you stuck your head in, spouted out some unsupported and provocative statements, and followed up with "Just sayin." Methinks the laddie doth protest too much.

sincerely — 0 thru 9

I don't doubt your sincerity.

But I didn't want to derail the thread by addressing them. — Ciceronianus

This is the semantic equivalent to one of my favorite passive-aggressive southernisms - "Just sayin."

It is feminism if the society is inherently patriarchal/misogynistic to begin with. Which it is. Equal rights in a male-biased system is feminist (supports/endorses conferring more power to women to equalise the status quo). — Benj96

To be consistent with that standard, you'll have to agree it's ok for me to claim to be a member of the black power movement.

You seem an intrusive, prickly, sanctimonious sort. But I hope you're not. — Ciceronianus

Alas, I hate to dash your hopes.

I would say that a "movement" (belief system/ideology) is not equal to your innate ethnicity/ definition or characterisation as a person. — Benj96

I didn't say BLM, I said black power. Saying you support equal rights for women is not the same as saying you are a feminist.

I can concede that some male feminism is bullshit. Other male feminism not so much. I like to think me reasons for being one are simple and concrete, despite what assumptions may be made about me for identifying as a proponent of it. — Benj96

I'm white. What would you think if I characterized myself as member of the black power movement?

I'm hopeful you're being ironic, but fear you're not. — Ciceronianus

You know what CM is saying and you know they mean it. This is just passive-aggressive baloney.