Yeah because it can’t be that college kids don’t like genocide. The 60s protests were USSR too, etc. typical rationale for delusional apologists of genocide. But yeah, go with that. I go with the China boogyman myself.

Well, I mean if Trump just completely cuts most (if not all) climate regulation and accelerates oil extraction then it is most certain we will not reach 1.5 nor even 2c by 2030, essentially guaranteeing the end of civilization. Granted, this is somewhat medium-ish term, but that's big. — Manuel

Well it will accelerate emissions, yes. It’ll send a poor message to the world, and will generally be taking us backwards in myriad ways when we’re already out of time and not doing enough domestically or globally. That’s gravely stupid. But that’s what an ignorant electorate just thrust into power for 4 years. I fully agree.

But your prediction is bad enough if it comes to fruition. — Manuel

Not much to figure out, it’s right there in what they say and what they’ve already done. So I think my prediction, if you call it that, is fairly certain yeah.

I don’t see anything significantly changing— things will remain the same crappy situation for most people. There’s a lot of hysterics, but the most damaging and the most consistent will be continued tax cuts, deregulation, and climate denial. In other words, right back to a stupider and more vulgar neoliberalism.

Any chance of success went out the window in 2021, when the 3.5 trillion dollar Bernie-backed reconciliation bill was killed by Manchin and Sinema. That would have been very good for the country. Instead we got crumbs and some baby steps in climate policy. Not good enough, not impactful enough.

If you believe these mass protests are purely organic I've got a bridge to sell you. — BitconnectCarlos

Like I said— probably Chinese communists.

:rofl:

Yes yes, they’re all anti-America. Probably a Red China conspiracy. Back to bed now grandpa.

I'm pretty sure campaigning with the Cheneys while snubbing the left on Gaza contributed to that. Perhaps stop trying to court this mythical sane Republican voter next time. — Mr Bee

Exactly. Turns out sending billions to aid a genocide isn’t as popular as zionist imbeciles think it is.

anti-American — BitconnectCarlos

:rofl:

As I’ve said before, the most moronic of analysts will show up claiming that Harris didn’t go far right enough. They’ll act as if moving left is unpopular (it isn’t), and a guaranteed loss (it won’t be). At least David Brooks isn’t such an idiot as to claim that.

Go back to the thread where you cheer a genocide— your delusions are irrelevant here.

it has no friends left and is a pariah state, for good reason — Manuel

Yep. But don’t tell that to genocide apologists, because it’s anti-semitism to oppose the murder of 15,000 babies.

Trump got roughly the same number of votes this year that he did in 2020– about 74 million. Harris got about 10-11 million less than Biden in 2020. That’s the real story, despite some inroads made among certain demographics by Trump. The turnout for Harris, like for Hillary, was low.

Collapse in Democratic Turnout Fueled Trump’s Victory

There’s no surprise as to why they would be. There was no reason to vote FOR her, and the motivation to vote AGAINST Trump, though still the correct move, wasn’t good enough.

This wasn’t a landslide, and wasn’t a mandate. But that’ll be the takeaway from the cult. But that’s a great thing— I hope they continue believing the whole country has gone “maga.”

So about all that voter fraud…. Haven’t heard a word about it. Guess the democrats “forgot” to steal this one. :lol:

What if it’s just because Harris sucked as a candidate, was never voted on to be the nominee, ran towards the right and away from Bernie, couldn’t talk without a teleprompter and endless coaching, and had no vision or policy to offer other than a pathetic “$25 thousand down payment” for homebuyers and that she wasn’t Donald Trump.

Now she, like Hillary, can also fuck off forever. Along with Biden.

The rest of us need to look at this result with humility. American voters are not always wise, but they are generally sensible, and they have something to teach us. My initial thought is that I have to re-examine my own priors. I’m a moderate. I like it when Democratic candidates run to the center. But I have to confess that Harris did that pretty effectively and it didn’t work. Maybe the Democrats have to embrace a Bernie Sanders-style disruption — something that will make people like me feel uncomfortable.

— David Brooks

Gee thanks David. Glad you’re realizing this NOW.

Him, Bret Stephens, and the rest of the anti-Bernie crowd can just shut up now.

After Trump Took the Lead, Election Deniers Went Suddenly Silent

“Trump supporters spent years fomenting concern about election integrity. On Tuesday, they set it all aside.”

Lol— what a shocker! Who would have thought?! It’s almost as if it is, and always was, complete bullshit.

Maybe I'll be unpleasantly surprised, but I am thinking it's more of the same. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Yep. Extending tax cuts, no national abortion ban, some dressed up nonsense on the border (packaged as something new, but basically continuing what’s been done with some murmurs about a wall), maybe some tariffs on Chinese goods (as Biden has done), and otherwise a bunch of hot air. He’ll be even worse on the Middle East, but will possibly stop funding the proxy war in Ukraine (perhaps the one bright spot).

The real shame will be 4 years of environmental deregulation, and the gutting of science. He’ll try to repeal the IRA, which may be possible now that they’ll have a trifecta (although a lot of republican districts have benefited, and with a slim house majority that may not fly).

Also, and equally damaging, is the free reign of appointing judges, which will further the courts to the right for a generation. I imagine Alito or Thomas will retire, and Sotomayer is in poor health I hear— so he may get another 3. He’ll have a full 4 years of a Republican Senate too, because 2026 there’s no chance Dems take it back, given the map.

But it’ll all likely swing back in ‘28. That is, if the party moves towards Bernie and away from the Clinton-Obama establishment neoliberal crowd.

Lionino was banned — Jamal

It’s unbelievable it took this long. Guess I can take him off my ignore list.

My family gets annoyed with me 'shouting at the television'. — Wayfarer

My family was annoyed that I was calling it for Trump :lol:

But yeah, it’s good to take some time away. Most people I talk to really don’t follow any of this that closely. What they end up with is whatever simple soundbite or slogan happens to make its way into their brains.

Political hobbyism, that’s all this is really. Don’t lose any sleep over it. Use whatever you feel to get involved locally. It’ll reset your perspective a bit.

Bernie. From the establishment's silencing of the right candidate for working class Americans came Trump's possibility to do what he's done. — creativesoul

Yep. Bernie would have won, in 2016, in 2020, in 2024. But the DNC made sure that didn’t happen. So this outcome isn’t surprising— which is why I called it weeks ago.

Trump is still the stupidest choice, but this will come with a lot of good things— like giving yet another “wakeup call” to the Democratic Party and the inevitable infighting and finger pointing. It’ll be fun watching what nonsense excuses they come up with. :lol:

A simple question I ask is: how many times did Harris rally with Bernie?

… and how many with Liz Cheney?

That’ll tell you everything you need.

I was wrong. :zip: — 180 Proof

Yeah, most people were I think. But this scenario wasn’t outside possibility— just sucks when it actually happens.

Medicare for all, $15 minimum wage, Green New Deal, free public college, student debt cancellation, the PRO Act (unions), free child care and child tax credit, raising taxes on the wealthy and corporations, gun control, police reform, etc etc. She ran from all of it. Not only does it energize the base, but most of it has broad appeal. Not to mention she’s a war hawk and genocide supporter like Biden.

Also, for the record: Bernie would have won.

What do you think are the lessons for Democrats here? — Tom Storm

Not to run an empty, establishment candidate who runs away from every popular progressive policy there is, and who has no principles. They played this one by the book— and failed yet again. Didn’t help that she, like Clinton (and, to a degree, Biden), was essentially anointed by the DNC.

It gets tiresome having to exclusively vote AGAINST something— that’s extremely uninspiring. Despite all the gaslighting, I never felt the so-called “energy,” and I imagine millions of others didn’t either. It all felt rather bland and formal and forced and coached. Like Hillary all over again: machine-like; robotic. I still voted against the worst, as we all should, but eventually you have to offer something as well. Biden, pressured by Bernie (as he needed that large cohort to get elected), ran on several of his policies. Kamala immediately ran to the “middle,” which every bozo pundit in their infinite wisdom said to do. You see the obvious result.

What will they actually learn? Nothing, probably. Maybe blame Russia again, or run even MORE to the right next time.

So a reminder of those confidently predicting a Harris win/landslide:

Allan Litchman (“never wrong in 40 years” 13 keys guy)
Michael Moore
Bill Maher
Nate Silver (barely)
James Carville
…anyone else care to add to this?

The polls turned out fairly accurate— still underestimating Trump but not by as much.

Now it’ll be fun watching the Republicans try to govern and yet still blame democrats when everything goes to shit, as it always does under their leadership.

Today’s the day we get 4 more years of the old degenerate climate-denying corporatist con man. It’ll do irreversible damage and lock in 50 years of a reactionary Supreme Court and judiciary generally— and put the brakes on the little climate policy we managed to pass— but hey, Americans are fairly stupid and easily brainwashed, and the Democrats should have known better. The lesson they’ll take away from this is that they should move farther to the right, which is insane. — Mikie

@180 Proof?

The only question is control of the house. But that’s not looking great either. So looks like complete control of the federal government for two years — and the judiciary for 40 or 50 years.

More extreme climate disasters are also now locked in. Enjoy.

It’s over. Stop kidding yourselves.

So Trump is gonna win, as I expected. What a stupid country. :lol:

Clown on me if I am wrong, as I should deserve it. — Manuel

I won’t. I hope you’re right.

Today’s the day we get 4 more years of the old degenerate climate-denying corporatist con man. It’ll do irreversible damage and lock in 50 years of a reactionary Supreme Court and judiciary generally— and put the brakes on the little climate policy we managed to pass— but hey, Americans are fairly stupid and easily brainwashed, and the Democrats should have known better. The lesson they’ll take away from this is that they should move farther to the right, which is insane.

Of course, we may not know the results tonight.

Quincy Jones

So it’s obvious to anyone paying attention, but just so it’s explicit and can easily be referenced:

If Trump loses (and I think he wins), he will claim victory before all votes are counted, scream about fraud and cheating without evidence, claim early votes or delayed counts (which are totally predictable) are illegitimate, and that the election was stolen from him again. Why? Because Trump is not psychologically capable of losing; that would make him a loser.

Given how obvious this is, and the fact that I’m calling it right now, you would think everyone would take these claims with a huge grain of salt— if not ignore them completely (the rational choice). The 2020 behavior is also quite enough to warrant waving it off as nonsense. But just watch — IF he loses, this is what will happen, and his gullible, irrational followers will go along with it.

Let it be noted. Quite pathetic, but clear as day. I’d bet anything on it.

Well, I can't think of another main reason. — javi2541997

Again, why you bother with climate-denying imbeciles is a mystery.

You can’t think of another reason because there is no other reason. Climate change isn’t true because of modeling, and the patterns we see aren’t due to some tilt of the earth’s axis, or el nino, or clouds, or volcanoes, or anything else people who know nothing about climate science want to claim it is.

The evidence is overwhelming, for those who are interested in the real world. For those too frightened you face it, motivated reasoning and Dr. Google will be enough to find ways to believe nothing is happening, both generally and specifically.

Don’t waste time— just get to work trying to replace fossil fuels and help brace for the disasters to come (of which there will be many more, and will only get worse).

Don’t see what the controversy is: Trump supporters ARE garbage. One of Biden’s few truthful statements. Too bad he walked it back.

Don’t waste too much time on climate-denying imbeciles. They’re embarrassed over and over yet continually come back anyway. Just trolling— or a learning disability. Either way, best to ignore.

If you want to learn something, check out Unenlightened’s posts— something can actually be learned in that case, rather than attempting to refute any child’s armchair ideas about science.

Shouldn't we take climate change more seriously from now on after the floods in Valencia (Spain)? — javi2541997

Yes we should. But climate deniers never will. They’ll keep their heads in the sand till the bitter end.

Like I said: just stupid, stupid people.

there's only idiots raising their voices so high that it disturbs the public space — Christoffer

Absolutely.

Stupid, stupid people. That’s all it is.

“Don’t Look Up” captures it well.

m

:clap:

I think Cheney’s endorsement is revenge for being attacked and thrown out of office, which in turn was done because she’s as establishment as they come and thus one of the few who voted impeachment. Why? Because prior to this Trump attacked Bush and Cheney— why? Because Jeb Bush ran against him and never made nice afterwards. Etc. It’s like asking why Megan McCain is against Trump. There’s personal reasons. This praise for Cheney is ridiculous. Fuck the Cheneys.

Abortion and democracy may be what motivates people to get out and vote— but you don’t really know that, nor do I.

But as always, I hope you’re right about this.

It’s close because of the electoral college, which is a stupid and anti-democratic system, as the US constitution itself is mostly anti-democratic.

But the other reason it’s so close, in my view, is that a good portion of the electorate’s lives are crappy, which makes them angry — and they look for reasons and someone to blame. They want explanations and to make sense of the world, as we all do. The media fill that role now, where family friends and religion once did, and cater messages to these people, depending on where they live and what their interests are and how they get their information (radio? TV? Newspaper?).

So there’s huge gaps between women and men, rural and urban people, college educated vs not, etc. The left demonizes Trump (although they have a much better case for doing so), and the right demonizes “liberals” (and do it much more effectively). Both are devils to the other side.

Since the advent of social media, distrust in literally everything and anything that doesn’t conform with what your preferred information pipeline is telling you has become rampant. Thus Trump can say almost anything — even trying to overturn an election and saying he won even when he lost — and many millions will go along with it, or shrug it off.

If CNN says he’s a threat to democracy or whatever, or if there’s reports about some crazy thing he said, it’ll be ignored— because those sources have been undermined and discredited in their minds (“fake news,” “witch hunt,” etc), mostly by Trump himself.

If the Democratic Party offered something real and started talking to working people, they’d break through a lot of this stuff — as Bernie did. But since they’re also a party of corporate America, there’s little chance of that.

Nate Silver: 50-50 but gut says Trump.
John Mearsheimer: “My guess is Harris wins popular vote but Trump eeks out a victory in the seven swing states.”

Guess I’m not so crazy after all :rofl:

Former president Donald Trump’s years-long effort to restrict mail balloting and early voting has skidded into reverse in North Carolina, with the Republican presidential nominee demanding the kind of easier voting access that he labeled fraudulent when Democrats pushed similar measures during the coronavirus pandemic in 2020.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/10/21/trump-voting-north-carolina-helene/

Election fraud! :lol:

:up:



I voted three days ago against fascism.

That’s two more says earlier than you, so…