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  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    This description of the hypothetical First Cause of the Big Bang sounds like something I might write. It accurately outlines what I call : BEING ; Enformer ; LOGOS ; G*D ; etc. But we seem to differ in our opinions of exactly what that "Something" is, essentially. — Gnomon

    It is the simplest, so there's really no more to go with it to keep it Fundamental. Its math may be messy, though.

    I can see how the “intricacies and complexities” of QFT would arise in its complete math description nightmare, given that the 25 quantum fields overlap and can interact with one another (we can’t even solve the three-body problem), but any individual field would seem to be of the ultimate simplicity. That QFT works so well is a huge plus for it being ontological, too.

    I see that the following is the crux of the matter of much wondering about existence:

    “I cannot rid myself of the conviction that Nothing would have obtained had not something special somehow superseded or counteracted it. Yes, I know that seems circular— …”

    — Robert Lawrence Kuhn

    (Answering him in an email):

    Not really circular, but undeniably showing a feat accomplished such that we can claim necessity for sure as a Truth without a Proof, which is about all that philosophy alone can do, which is why it’s more satisfying to the find the physical analog of the logic through physics.

    The Proof is not always necessary or possible, but we do have the quantum vacuum and its overall quantum field staring us in the face as able to make all the constituents of the universe. Carlo Rovelli likes to say that the quantum fields exhaust reality, which one could also take as a joke that all this research can be really tiring, although I find it to be invigorating.

    ‘Necessity’ is of course still as a brute fact, but that’s the best point for the buck to stop, at the causeless, in order to avoid the infinite regress that ever ensues if we get taken in by the template of wanting a lesser stage to ever have to come from a greater stage.

    I can only offer that since ‘Nothing’ couldn’t cut the mustard that ‘it’ couldn’t, and it is thus again impossible or that ‘it’ cannot be an it, and so The One Existent has no alternative and thus it must be, as the least state that gives rise to the composite and then to the greater complexity, just as we see as what happened in the universe.

    I’ll perhaps have to think more about why the One Existent has to be what it is, given that with no beginning it couldn’t have any specific design or direction going into it. At first, I thought that it not being anything in particular somehow meant that it could be everything, either linearly or all at once (we don’t yet know the mode of time), but lately I’m sticking with that it defaults to be being the simplest state with no parts in order to satisfy the fundamental arts, which state still seems to be able to do anything and everything.

    In the class of universes that have life, our universe is not among the worst, nor close to perfect, as it is mathematically elegant, for there are superfluous entities in it, along with a lot of waste. Protons and neutrons require only up and down quarks, and not the other four quarks. Of course, the extravagant waste may have increased the chances of Earth having the right conditions for life and the other quarks and stuff may play some role.

    Our universe then is generic, as mediocre, even, somewhere within the range of universes that can achieve life. Our universe took an extremely long time to evolve cosmically, as well as for life to develop biologically. It perhaps wasn’t the quickest or the slowest to do so. It kind of limped along through the deuterium bottleneck at first.

    We on Earth had to wait for a metal rich third generation star, and then early life had to suffer through five extinctions, nearly wiping out all of the species, the last near extinction, the Permian, opening up a space for mammals to evolve. I doubt if Intelligent Design consists of throwing a huge rock at the Earth.

    That our universe is somewhere in between perfect and the worst shows that there has to be a multiverse. Also, if there can be one universe then there can be more.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    Why not? — Arthur1947

    Because there can't be a 'not'.

    I was born in 1947, too.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    Perhaps, and contrary to all our intuitions, something can come out of nothing, given enough "time", which didn't exist prior to the big bang, supposedly. — Manuel

    We can't even hope for 'Nothing' to be or do something because 'it' isn't. You're right that humans might have trouble pondering anExistent that has no alternative or opposite, given that we can think of alternatives for other 'thing's, plus, Nothing is indeed a word, albeit that it means: not anything.

    Now, how can the Permanent Existent be something definite, like continuous points with this as a continuous 3D wave field, given that it has no beginning and thus no direction or design to it? It's likely that there isn't anything simpler, given that it has to be partless to be fundamental.

    Since the Permant Existent ever remains, it could make another temporary universe… unto a multiverse.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    gravity is an illusion. In part, it is associated with a quantity called “curvature” — Gnomon

    GRAVITY EXPLAINED

    The Strength of Gravity, the Feeble Apparent

    Gravity is a universal force—for any body:
    The force felt by a body is mass proportional;
    Yet, the acceleration that’s felt is the inverse!
    This coincidence removes all mass dependence.

    (Einstein transcended this amazing “coincidental” race
    By bodies going straight through curved space.)

    Gravity might be derived from the fundamentals,
    The byproduct of a small residual after cancelations
    Of opposite electric or color charges, and more.
    Why then is gravity universal, for its sources are not?

    Perhaps the appearance of feebleness is deceptive
    Since protons and neutrons are but lightweights.
    But why are they so light? Their mass is a compromise
    Between a disturbance energy and its cancellation.

    The quarks’ color charge
    Disturbs gluons around them,
    Small at first,
    But larger growing farther from the quark.

    These disturbances cost energy,
    But, how to cancel them?
    With an anti-quark
    Or two complementarily colored quarks.

    But, the qualifying quarks
    Can’t sit atop the originals,
    For quarks have no definite position,
    Just a wave function,
    And they can’t be localized
    To a small spread of position,
    For this requires a larger energy;
    So, forget nullification.

    The compromise is that
    Some residual energy amounts
    From the not-completely-canceled
    Gluon field disturbances
    And from the not-completely-canceled
    Quark positionings;

    Thus, the proton mass from m=E/cc,
    With this tricky element
    Of how the gluon disturbance field
    Grows with distance.

    The residual strong energy
    From color charge also binds
    The protons and neutrons
    In the atomic nucleus;

    The electromagnetic electron/nuclei
    Charge residuals
    Bind atoms into molecules,
    And molecules into materials.

    Asymptotic freedom
    Is a subtle feedback effect
    From virtual particles
    Antiscreening the color charge.

    This antiscreening builds up gradually,
    Especially at first,
    Then proceeds more quickly,
    Building upon each building.

    Whereas, screening happens
    For electrically charged particles,
    Being such as a positive charge
    Attracts a negative virtual cloud.

    Thus, at first,
    Since it’s so slow to build,
    The pressure to localize the nullifying quarks
    Is quite mild as well;

    Thus, there’s no need
    To very strictly localize and
    So the energies are small;
    So then is the proton mass.

    This is the lightness of being.

    (Ideas herein were gathered from readings, esp. Frank Wilczek)
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    Is it a material Thing — Gnomon

    Yes, as all is constituted of it as what we call 'things' for convenience, but the temporaries are not identical to themselves over time; perhaps call 'things' events or processes.

    Saying 'Chi' and 'Oz' as woo in the same discussion doesn't make it unreal.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    he was the one who applied the scare-word "spooky" to "diminish" another concept that defies common sense. — Gnomon

    That was about quantum entanglement, and if you look it up you will see that it has been found. Also, spacetime is essentially the gravitational field. We've also found gravitational waves. "Occult" doesn't apply.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    In the minds of many religious folks, the notion of a first cause is tied in with their religious beliefs. — EricH

    The religious first cause is too complex to be Fundamental, plus it also leads to a regress of the lesser having to ever come from the greater if they continue that template.

    There is a Mandatory Permanent Continuous Simplest Non-Composite Fundamental Existent, X, as all there is, because it has no alternative or opposite to its being, for ‘Nonexistence’ can’t even be meant as something, much less be productive.

    Why does X have to produce the temporary forms?

    X cannot be still or naught would have become as the temporaries, thus, X is not still and so X is energetic and X ever moves.

    How does X produce the temporary forms?

    X has only itself available to constitute the temporary forms and so these have to be formed via arrangements of itself that can have some persistence as elementary units that have mobility.

    What mobility?

    X is everywhere and so the elementary units can travel about.

    Why elementary?

    X is the ultimate lightweight and so the first temporary forms as the elementaries must also be lightweights. The elementary units may then combine or interact to form composite elements, and we know the rest of that story from Science.

    But how do we know the first part of the story from Science, as confirmation of the philosophical logic?

    X would be the quanta vacuum with its overall quantum field as partless and continuous, as the simplest, mandatory, permanent existent.

    A field is merely what has a value at every point, they having to fluctuate, given that there cannot be stillness. The points must tug on one another and so the field at large wavers, this wave nature leading to the necessity of the quantum aspect of stable excitation levels happening.

    A model that proves to be correct in representing a field is one that has sums of the harmonic oscillations of the field points. The rather persistent elementaries occur at the stable rungs of energy excitation quanta and they are those quanta.

    Wanna-be ‘elementaries’ that do not reach the right excitation level are the still real virtuals that come and go very quickly. We know these from the Casmir effect.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    Sounds like "spooky action at a distance". — Gnomon

    Sorry, one cannot diminish the Casmir effect by saying ""Spooky".

    So, they're not even real enough to be virtual??? :joke: — Gnomon

    The joke needs more work; they are real enough, as the quantum fluctuations.
  • A single Monism
    There are multiple "kinds" of monists from idealists, to physicalists to materialists, to God knows what else. I think they're all the same, despite sparking such heated discussion (the first 2 especially). — khaled

    Indeed, there has to be a Fundamental Existent, X, because nonexistence cannot be. Thus it is mandatory and it is all there is, as the simplest partless and continuous state, for it cannot be composite and still be Fundamental. it can't make anything different than itself, but it can rearrange itself into rather persistent but temporary forms such as the elementary 'particles' that are excitations of it at stable rungs of field energy quanta; thus it as X is the quantum vacuum with its overall quantum field.

    So, we have the logic in accord with science. Can't beat that! It is proved! It made a temporary universe and it is ever there to make another.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    That should have been "there is something and so a lack of anything could not be the case". Introducing the past tense confuses the issue by introducing time.

    It's not legitimate to jump from "there is something now" to "there has always been something".     — Banno

    Actually, it was already sufficient to state that existence has no alternative, given that nonexistence cannot have being, so I didn't need to reify 'Nothing' as a 'case', for a case is a fact. Consider it gone. There is Something because it is mandatory as it has no opposite.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    What I'm trying to do is to imagine getting rid of everything in the universe and then trying to extrapolate what would be there if we could also get rid of the mind. — Roger

    Only the temporary forms can be gotten rid of, as forms, such as the universe that Banged out, but the Permanent has to remain, as the source of the Bang, and of course the temporaries here are ever the Permanent's rearrangements, not anything else different, but it would be those rearrangements that one imagines getting rid of.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    Note -- In QT, some external "excitation" or "perturbation", such as a Measurement or Choice triggers the transformation from Virtual to Actual, or Potential (hidden ; implicit) to Explicit. — Gnomon

    No, the virtuals can't become particles; they don't have the full quanta. Measurement is about determining the location of a spread out elementary particle smear as best one can do, given that it's approximate, and so a probability of its whereabouts comes forth. Best not to think of 'particles' as particles, like pinpoints, because they aren't; they are ever lumps in fields.

    An aside, as a speculation, would be that if there is inflation then perhaps it will separate virtual particles faster than they can recombine.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    If we say the laws of math, logic and physics exist always in some sort of Platonic realm, where is this realm and why is it there instead of nothing. — Roger

    This is what Max Tegmark goes for, but it's hard to fathom. The laws would have to be concurrent in the Mandatory Existent.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    This "nothing" would be it; it would be the all. It would be the entirety, or whole amount, of all that is present. Is there anything else besides that "absolute nothing"? — Roger

    Can't really have 'it'; the closest one might put 'it' is that 'it' is a nonexistent absolute, perhaps to employ it as a bound that cannot be gotten to, which one might also do for chock full, in which there could be no movement, this being another boundary to the forbidden, as another nonexistent absolute. Like Parmenides, I'm ruling out 'Nothing' completely.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    "Virtual" particles. In calculations, they are treated as-if real, even though they are only potential : not yet realized. — Gnomon

    They as real although brief make for the Casmir effect.
  • Why There is Something—And Further Extensions
    The mathematical "points" in the field are described euphemistically as "Virtual" particles. — Gnomon

    The virtual particles are not points but are the fractional quanta that aren't at a stable energy quanta rung and so they quickly go away (as per being 'particles'), unable to form elementary particles.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Yes, I think this is undeniable. — Philosophim

    I started a thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12164/why-there-is-something-and-further-extensions
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    The First Cause has to be the the simplest partless state. If it has parts, then the parts were there before it.
  • Double Slit Experiment.
    A ‘particle’ goes through both slits because it is a field quantum, and the ‘particle’ is ever the quantum field. The ‘particle’ or ‘wavicle’ is spread out and vibrating in the quantum field; so, as it isn’t a pinpoint it’s best to just refer to it as a a field quantum.

    Many wanna-be ‘particles’ don’t reach the stable quantum energy level and so they come and go rather quickly, arising and returning back into the zero-point energy that isn’t zero, at the rest energy of the field or near to, they being known as the virtual ‘particles’. They do not come from ‘Nothing’ nor do they return to ‘Nothing’; so they can only be said to pop in and out of ‘existence’ in their ‘particle’ type nature as a so-called ‘particle’.

    The entire universe is temporary, presumably because everything leaks, probably because infinite precision cannot be; however the Permanent quantum vacuum with its overall quantum field ever remains to someday make another universe of temporaries.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Time, space, distance, speed, direction, size, are all relative, . — Miller

    Yes, and as an aside Rovelli uses this 'relativeness' as trying to show relationism…

    and the play of the one eternal infinite substance — Miller

    It writes the story of our universe on the bookshelf of the Library of Babel as well as all the books.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Causation is eternal. It never began. — Miller

    Yes, although I would phrase it as that there has to be a Base Existent as a Single Simple Permanent Eternal Existent with no beginning as the basis of all the temporaries come forth because 'Nothing' cannot be in place of it as an alternative, or have given birth to it, that is, the Base Existent is mandatory, having. no option not to be, with no opposite state having being.

    Indeed there is something, which is the same as saying that a lack of anything could not be the case; so, the something that we have about us had to have a basis, which basis as the Base Existent could not have an infinite regress beneath it nor have come from the impossible 'Nothing',not able to become from parts that would be more fundamental than it, and so there we have identified the Base Existent as having to be so.

    The Base Existent must then be partless and continuous, and thus the simplest state, unmakeable and unbreakable, and thus eternal, as Permanent, it only means of forming temporaries being rearrangements of itself that must occur because it could not have been still or else it just would have sat there, inert and unable to form anything.

    So, our universe is temporary, and the Permanent Existent has to be there before our universe, still here now during our universe, and still there after the universe and all its temporaries have gone away.

    The simple partlesss, continuous, energetic quantum vacuum with its overall quantum field matches the criteria above, it giving rise to all of physics, which works beyond our wildest dreams.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    But a wave in water is still composed of molecules, and emptyness between those molecules. For fields, we have electron fields. Yet they are still composed of individual electrons, and "nothingness" between them. — Philosophim

    Then they would be adjacent, without anything in-between, with 'Nothing' still not there as existent. Electron virtual particles are the fractional excitations that didn't reach a quantum of energy. They and the field at rest that yet ever moves still fill it all up completely as field, as ever. There's no existent of 'emptiness' as a nonexistent something; Parmenides came up with this shock.

    I have no doubt at a larger scale, it functions like a field. But, this does not mean its proven that there is nothing more granular if you examine that field at a closer level. — Philosophim

    I wouldn't think there's anything more basic than a field point. Fields are the ultimate lightweights from which the lightweight elementaries are the rather stable energy quanta. Yet, everything leaks and so our universe is temporary, although long lasting, but the Permanent ever remains.

    QFT is the most successful and firm theory in the history of science, from which we build all kinds of devices. Good to follow up on the actual universe. Other supposed Absolutes from now ancient science have fallen by the wayside, such as Absolute Time and Absolute Space, along with the elementaries themselves being Fundamental and making fields. Quantum fields are all that's left to consider.

    I still don't understand how 'Nothing' could be something. At any rate, a lack of anything isn't the case. There is, though, a curious near zero sum of the universe, but for the quantum fluctuations, and it could be that the potential energy of gravity matches and even feeds the kinetic energy of stuff but that is a physical process and not 'Nothing' doing anything either.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Logically, why could there not be "nothing"? — Philosophim

    Because 'it' has no properties. 'Nothing' is as nonexistence; 'it' isn't there; 'it' has no what, etc.

    Doesn't nothing exist now? The fact that something can appear while nothing remains around it is not far fetched at all, considering we have many things that exist with mostly nothing around it. — Philosophim

    No, it appears from the successful QFT that all is field. The quantum 'vacuum' is the best candidate for the First Cause, its energetic points having a value at every point, which is all that's meant by a field. Its behavior matches the math model based on harmonic oscillators. The elementaries come forth directly as the quanta of field excitations, as field arrangements, not as any new substance different from field. So, here we have something to go on to confirm the philosophy of the one First Cause that cannot not be.

    There ain't no nothing no way nohow!
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    spontaneously — Philosophim

    I think I mean 'spontaneously' as instead of the First Cause having always been—as a true Fundamental that never gets made or appears, being unmakeable and unbreakable due to having no parts. I favor the latter case as mandatory because the alternate of 'Nothing' is not the case nor could 'Nothing' even have being or even be meant as an opposite option.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    It seems that an existent as a First Cause can’t come into being spontaneously, for the Possibility of this happening would be even more Fundamental, making for untold numbers of First Causes appearing.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    3. Alphas would seem to be incredibly small. — Philosophim

    Yes, as close to zero as the simplest that is possible.

    It has energy and so it can't be still, else naught would have further come forth.

    It has only itself, so it can only rearrange to make forms.

    Random action, since no design could have been imparted? Or some default for the simplest?

    How much of it would there be?

    It is continuous if there is a lot of it, again due to no spacers of 'Nothing' unable to be in it.

    It is ever there because 'Nothing' cannot be and so there is no alternative to its being?
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    it's a mental something (subjective idea, not objective object). — Gnomon

    Too complicated to be the Basis of everything.

    I'll just have to leave it all to be invisible…

    The Eternal Saki

    (First one is Omar’s, the rest are mine))

    And fear not lest Existence closing your
    Account, and mine, should know the like no more;
    The Eternal Saki from that Bowl has pour’d
    Millions of Bubbles like us, and will pour.

    Yet worry you that this Cosmos is the last,
    That the likes of us will become the past,
    Space wondering whither whence we went
    After the last of us her life has spent?

    The Eternal Saki has formed trillions of baubles
    Like ours, for e’er—the comings and passings
    Of which it ever emits to immerse
    In the universal bubbles blown and burst.

    So fear not that a debit close your
    Account and mine, knowing the like no more;
    The Eternal Source from its pot has pour’d
    Zillions of bubbles like ours, and will pour.

    What though the sky with its blue canopy
    Doth close us in so that we can not see,  
    In the etern Cupbearer’s wine methinks
    There float a myriad bubbles like to me.

    So, as thus thou lives on yester’s credit line,
    In nowhere’s midst, now in this life of thine,
    As of its bowl our cup of brew is mixed
    Into the state of being that’s called ‘mine’.

    Behind the Veil, being that which e’er thrives,
    The Eternal ‘IS’ has ever been alive,
    For that which hath no onset cannot die,
    Nor a point from which to have any guide.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    the meta-physical eternal TAO or G*D or LOGOS — Gnomon

    Isn't this more than 'Nothing'. Isn't it still a something in some kind of realm as above in that realm's level as tangible to that realm but not to ours?
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    What is the nature of the First Cause, given that it has no input?
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Sounds like the TAO — Gnomon

    Bounded by non-existent absolutes,
    The Essence lies between the Null and Full—
    As relations of all that’s possible,
    Exuding universes, first begat
    In a Bang, destined to die in a sigh.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Yes, but is the "One" physical & ever-changing, or meta-physical & omni-potential? — Gnomon

    It remains as the physical One; its rearrangements are temporary; it doesn't make new substances; it is ever itself.

    Eterne’s Great Wheel e’er whirls its energy,
    It having to turn and return, to be,
    'Transmuting', as ne’er still—eternally,
    Into life’s temporary pattern-trees.

    Moves of the Eterne dooms forms’ permanence;
    But the patient time til their expiration
    Restrains for some while the shapes’ destructance;
    Thus they can slowly traverse life’s distance.

    Is that what psychics "see" as the human Aura? — Gnomon

    Not at all. It is the contents of consciousness.

    So the answer is Be Here Now? Don't worry about what was, or will be. Sufficient unto the day . . . . . . . — Gnomon

    "No salvation." — Gnomon

    Would you your sparkle of Existence spend
    Beyond The ‘Vacuum’—quick about it, Friend!
    A Hair perhaps divides the False from True—
    And upon what, prithee, may all depend?

    The Simple Hair divides the False and True;
    Yes; and the single Alif is the clue,
    As the Quantum Field—to the Treasure-house,
    Though not adventure in The Master’s brew.

    Forget about the blame and also the fame—
    The Great Wheel’s not designed in any name,
    Since, with no beginning, it ne’er became;
    Thus no Alif through Ye: it’s e’er the same.

    My spirit to the Causeless was near blind:
    Quoth I, ‘If the Beginning you could find—
    The Alif—of word, phrase, and uni-verse,
    Thou needs not the alphabet—all’s been mined.’

    Seize the moment or lose its momentum,
    Wearing time as your royal diadem;
    Richly accelerate life’s momentous gem,
    Letting your motto be ‘Carpe diem’.

    World does not pass by; you pass through it;
    Clear your being so the treasure may arrive;
    This spirit sparkles of a different light,
    The gemstones are of a different mine,

    Whose secret Presence through transient veins
    Running Quicksilver-like fuels your gains;
    Taking all shapes from fish to moon as
    They change and perish all—but It remains.

    The best of all that is below the moon
    And above the fish is beauty’s commune,
    In her wine poured and sipped, all else forgone,
    From Mah to Mahi, raptured noon to noon.

    The Secret guessed—then back behind the Fold
    Immerst of Darkness round the Drama roll’d
    Which, for the Pastime of Eternity,
    Doth It all contrive, enact, and get told.

    ’Twas writ each time, whatever was to be,
    By quill, unheeding bliss or misery,  
    Yea, writ upon each tablet universe—
    To murmur or resist is vanity. 

    Outputs must have inputs, they in turning
    Becoming inputs to more fates churning,
    Temporary; all is writ, on every path,
    As in ours, so what must be will e’er spring.

    Each morn springs thee over the wasteland’s brink,
    And on time’s sand you the oasis drink.
    Life’s strange caravan through the desert winds,
    Back toward Nothing; drink—afore the stars sink.

    O unenlightened race of humankind,
    Ye are temporary, built on empty wind!  
    Yea, a mere nothing, hovering in the abyss,
    Writ on water with smoke and fog, resigned!

    And so in vain, down on the stubborn Floor
    Of Earth, and up to Heav’n’s unopening Door,
    You gaze To-day, while You are You—how then
    To-morrow, when You shall be You no more.(Omar direct)
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    But those who suggest a Multiverse or Many Worlds alternative would be embarrassed to respond with "so is my Multiverse". That sounds too much like "my Material god-substitute versus your Spiritual God". — Gnomon

    That's fine for some, but it's not 'God'; it's just the simple basis of the more complex as the Ground of Determination.

    And physicality would logically require an infinite regression of world-cycles in space-time. — Gnomon

    ? The one and only basis remains; no regress.

    His outlandish ideas opened the door to Quantum Theory, which like quicksand has undermined the ancient Atomic Theory with invisible intangible Mathematical Fields as the fundamental reality of Physics. — Gnomon

    Einstein's discovery of the quantum discreteness of photons proved true, so it was not outlandish.

    The quantum fields are the basis of all the physical goings on in our universe, so they are physical. They are not made of math, but their physical operations are amenable to being described by math, the physical quantum fields results matching the math predictions, thus confirming the quantum fields.

    physical Brains that mysteriously generate invisible mind-fields are ultimately composed of, not things per se, but incorporeal relationships between things. — Gnomon

    We do see the mind-fields, and that is all we ever 'see'; they're as maps made in the brain process of consciousness.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    why are we here? What should we do now that we are here? And how should we live? — Gnomon

  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Einstein's idealized Block Universe is indeed pictured as eternal, but it's also static : nothing new ever happens. Instead, all possibilities exist simultaneously & forever as inert potentials. In the dynamic Real physical world, that's impossible. But, in an Ideal Meta-physical realm, it's not only possible, but also logical (sequential cause & effect) ; as Plato implied in his descriptions of LOGOS. — Gnomon

    The Block Universe is a picture of change, but anyway, back to the presentism-like cause and effect mentioned: Potential Everything would then still come about linearly in a dynamical real physical way.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Yes, but . . . the problem with the Multiverse conjecture is the same old Eternal Regress that you find hard to accept in anthro-morphic god-models. Also, how could something that is constantly changing and evolving be self-existent? That's the same old tower-of-turtles teaser. — Gnomon

    How come you are always referencing turtles when the buck clearly stops at my One as the base?

    This Self-Existent, as the overall quantum field as the quantum vacuum, for example, doesn't go away as it rearranges into the elementaries.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Every-Thing encompasses all possible worlds. — Gnomon

    You have recognized the multiverse. That accords well.

    Enfernity" : similar to Einstein's "Block-Time" or "Space-Time", but in a holistic sense, timeless & spaceless. — Gnomon

    You have recognized the block multiverse. That is the answer! Accords well with timeless eternalism.

    Yes, the omnipotential One is indeed timeless, spaceless, and super-posed. But the existence of our world implies that something transformed that omnidirectional Potential into an evolving world --- to collapse the superposition. — Gnomon

    The superposition collapse problem is no longer needed for this direction of analysis, for it's more of a presentism notion for real time passing when measuring where a particle probably is.

    Thus, all possible universes are real in the block multiverse, as timeless and all done, finished, most of them not having life or being outright flops. 'Everything' is a big spender overall, as well as in our universe of so much stuff!
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    So, 'Nothing' does not challenge 'God', but the necessity of a single, simple base physical substance does, in that it required no creation.

    My own worldview is still monistic, but the "single substance" is now invisible Information, not tangible matter. — Gnomon

    This physical information, to speak of it in a holistic way that you might like, can operate without a programmer and her problematic regress…

    The Great 'IS' that is the monistic One would already have all possible realities of universes in it in a superposition, as it being Everything since what has no beginning can't have a direction inputted to it.

    This is as a multi-verse, which also be deduced by another way: If their is a Fundamental One from which our universe came forth, the One ever remains and so it could just as well make another universe. Alternately, if one wants the universe to have been a spontaneous event, then more universes could become the same way. The ‘spontaneous’ can also be regarded as a capability that is the One.

    Anyway, the One is as complete in its information in the same way that a Library of Babel would be in having all possible books. The overall information content is zero, but there is still all the information that could ever be.

    Of course, in any universe that creates thinking life, such as in ours, the thinkers would wonder how such an apparently fine-tuned marvel could have happened.

    The next philosophy to all this would be to explain which of all the possible universes get realized and actualized, and how, unless they all do.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Yes. And posters on this forum are still arguing about such non-physical non-sense, such as Life or Death. — Gnomon

    Life and death are as physical as can be for the Earthly creatures.

    A scientific poem on the quantum 'vacuum' first cause physical example:

    On the One and Only Base Existence

    Prolog

    In this lost haunt on the Orion arm
    Of the galaxy, safe from the core’s harm,
    The philosophers meet in the forum,
    As sleuth-hounds unweaving the Cosmic yarn.

    We search for the Start of the Universe,
    The End, the Before, the After, the Kinds,
    The Measures, and All That Lies Between:
    The Music of the Spheres’ Magnificat.

    Reveal
    We follow every single avenue,
    Whether it’s brightly lit or a dark alley,
    Exploring one-ways, no-ways, and dead-ends,
    Until cornered where the Truth is hiding.

    Since we all became of this universe,
    Should we not ask who we are, whence we came?
    Insight clefts night’s skirt with its radiance—
    The Theory of Everything shines through!

    We are ever in touch with the unknown,
    For that’s ever the reach of science shown.
    Reality is grasped by focusing
    On what interacts with what and the means.

    There is a realm of happenings, not things,
    For ‘things’ don’t remain the same on time’s wings.
    What remains through time are processes—
    Relations between different systems.

    An Eternal Basis has to be so,
    For a lack of anything cannot sow,
    Forcing there to be something permanent,
    As partless, from which the particles grow.

    Consider quantum fields of waves atop
    One another: waves are continuous,
    And so qualify as Fundamental;
    Quantized lumps are particles; they move.

    Note that there is no other absolute:
    Newton’s fixed space and time got Einstein’s boot;
    Particle spigots making fields are mute;
    Classic fields have no fundamental loot.

    There’s a lightness to elemental being
    Since any more would have to be of parts,
    And thus go beyond the fundamental arts.
    The vacuum puffs of energy are small.

    On the Forced Defaults for the Only Existence

    There can only be the one Existence,
    Forced, with no option for it not to be,
    Which is no mystery because a ‘Nil’
    Cannot be, even as spacers within.

    There is neither ‘Full’ nor ‘Null’,
    But a lightness of being near ‘Zero’,
    As that’s what the universe amounts to,
    Nor ‘Nil’s kin as ‘Still’, since there’s constant change.

    This must-be partless Existence Eterne
    Can’t end, so it must remain as itself,
    Transmuting into multiplicity
    Of the temporary as ‘elementaries’.

    Since The Eterne has to be, of not ‘null’,
    ‘Supernatural Magic’ isn’t required;
    So, there’s only the natural as the base;
    One degree of freedom is its forced default.

    Motion is a must, or naught would happen;
    It can’t have parts, so it’s continuous;
    No end, it must e’er return to itself.
    There can’t be anything else but it.

    It is everywhere, with no gaps of ‘zilch’;
    It waves, as is ubiquitous in nature,
    Rearranging to the elementary
    Particles at stable rungs of quanta.

    Only quantum fields fit the criteria;
    Particles as spigots failed to flow,
    Newton’s ‘Space’ and ‘Time’ disappeared via
    Einstein’s relativity special and general.

    Quantum field points that must spring up and down
    Form the field’s waves by dragging on others.
    These sums of harmonic oscillations
    Force the fixed quanta energy levels.

    So the wave estimate proves to be right;
    An electron/photon goes through both slits
    Because it is a spread out field quantum.
    Quantum jumps cannot be wave fractionals.

    The universe is a large quantum field,
    For the 25 quantum fields interact,
    This containing the whole of physics.
    There’s no ‘God’s’ eye view; anything happens.

    The anything of the massive universe
    Is a lot of needed extravagant junk,
    For on Earth the right conditions obtained,
    Our planet being where and what it has to be.

    Cosmic and biological evolution were forced,
    Stars collecting the elementaries,
    Producing all the atomic elements
    That went on toward molecules, cells, and more.

    All this took 13.5 billion years,
    Since, again, there were no hoodoo shortcuts.
    Life and consciousness emerged, no ‘Mojo’—
    Since long ago on Earth they were not there!

    Our planet is very good at promoting life,
    But it is much better at extinguishing it.
    Of the billions upon billions of organic things,
    99.99% are no longer around here living.

    Of all extinctions, the Permian was the worst.
    245 million years ago, for 95% of species perished,
    Suddenly disappearing from the fossil recording.
    Life had almost come to a total obliterationing.

    “Hurray,” said the shrew; now I can evolve!

    ‘You’ were once a lucky shrew, darting all about,
    But then attached to a favorable evolutionary line…
    Every single one of your forbears on both sides
    Being attractive enough to locate a loving mate,
    And they fortunately had the good health to celebrate!

    Our blind-fated path was the further paved
    When disasters finished most of the species.
    Far from a feature of Intelligent Design,
    It opened up the space that was needed.

    The Downfall of ‘Beyond’ and ‘Extra’
    ‘Magic’ has fallen by the wayside, it
    As trancendence an intangible writ,
    Unable to be distinct from matter,
    Having to talk/walk the talk/walk of it.

    An extra distinct realm isn’t needed,
    As ‘intangible’, ‘ineffable’, etc.,
    For it only begs the question—regress!—
    And as separate couldn’t have effect.

    The ‘immaterial’ and ‘nonphysical’
    Haven’t shown anything at all to date,
    Plus, all the more they’d have to be explained;
    The ‘supernatural’ claim has to fail.

    Five billion years ago there was no life
    Or consciousness, and now they are both here,
    Thus, they emerged, evolving during that time;
    So, there’s no need for any ‘hyperphysical’.

    Where’s the esoteric among atoms?
    What inside their doings would be else wise?
    Do molecules swirl into spooky states?
    What their secret patterns hidden away?

    The light atomic elements were prime,
    And the stars made more, on up through iron,
    And the rest were from collisions/novae;
    So, what unknown secrets would they contain?

    The ‘God’ idea has fallen from its throne;
    Forever quantum fields’ excitations’
    Elementary quanta roll on the fields
    That are everywhere and remain intact.

    Epilog

    The quantum fields’ unity is the Whole,
    Being ever, exhausting Reality,
    Unbreakable and Unmakeable,
    As partless and continuous monads.

    All that emerges is still the fields at heart,
    Though secondary and temporary,
    Arising and at some time returning;
    The quantum fields are indivisible.

    Quantum fields are the fundamental strokes
    Whose excitations at harmonics cloak
    The quanta with the stability
    To persist and thus obtain mobility.

    The elementary particles beget,
    As letters of the Cosmic alphabet,
    And combine in words to write the story
    Of the stars, atoms, cells, and life’s glory.

    Why Something?

    Quantum states melt via uncertainty,
    And this means that no quantum property
    Can e’er be zero—a precise amount,
    And so it is that motion can ne’er cease.

    The Something

    The quantum field is the bridge between ‘Nil’
    And basic matter, and can ne’er be still;
    Thus the ‘vacuum’ is the quietest field—
    The closest approach to ‘Nothing’ that can be.

    No ‘Null’ nor Matter Full

    ‘Nothing’ had no chance to be the hero,
    Plus QM scrubs the idea of zero
    Out of the physical world of being;
    ‘Vacuum’ ne’er sleeps, but’s e’er up to something.

    A Mere Blip

    But for the small quantum uncertainty,
    The Cosmos sums to naught, its lunch being free:
    No net electric charge; a weightless brick;
    Minus-potential = plus-kinetic.

    The Impossibles

    Oh, those imaginings of what can’t be!
    Such as Nought, Stillness, and the Block’s decree,
    As well as Apart, Beginning, and End,
    The Unfixed Will, Blame, Fame, and Theity.
  • A first cause is logically necessary
    Another scientific poem on a quantum vacuum first cause physical example:

    On the One and Only Base Existence

    Prolog

    In this lost haunt on the Orion arm
    Of the galaxy, safe from the core’s harm,
    The philosophers meet in the forum,
    As sleuth-hounds unweaving the Cosmic yarn.

    We search for the Start of the Universe,
    The End, the Before, the After, the Kinds,
    The Measures, and All That Lies Between:
    The Music of the Spheres’ Magnificat.

    We follow every single avenue,
    Whether it’s brightly lit or a dark alley,
    Exploring one-ways, no-ways, and dead-ends,
    Until cornered where the Truth is hiding.

    Since we all became of this universe,
    Should we not ask who we are, whence we came?
    Insight clefts night’s skirt with its radiance—
    The Theory of Everything shines through!

    Reveal
    We are ever in touch with the unknown,
    For that’s ever the reach of science shown.
    Reality is grasped by focusing
    On what interacts with what and the means.

    There is a realm of happenings, not things,
    For ‘things’ don’t remain the same on time’s wings.
    What remains through time are processes—
    Relations between different systems.

    An Eternal Basis has to be so,
    For a lack of anything cannot sow,
    Forcing there to be something permanent,
    As partless, from which the particles grow.

    Consider quantum fields of waves atop
    One another: waves are continuous,
    And so qualify as Fundamental;
    Quantized lumps are particles; they move.

    Note that there is no other absolute:
    Newton’s fixed space and time got Einstein’s boot;
    Particle spigots making fields are mute;
    Classic fields have no fundamental loot.

    There’s a lightness to elemental being
    Since any more would have to be of parts,
    And thus go beyond the fundamental arts.
    The vacuum puffs of energy are small.

    On the Forced Defaults for the Only Existence

    There can only be the one Existence,
    Forced, with no option for it not to be,
    Which is no mystery because a ‘Nil’
    Cannot be, even as spacers within.

    There is neither ‘Full’ nor ‘Null’,
    But a lightness of being near ‘Zero’,
    As that’s what the universe amounts to,
    Nor ‘Nil’s kin as ‘Still’, since there’s constant change.

    This must-be partless Existence Eterne
    Can’t end, so it must remain as itself,
    Transmuting into multiplicity
    Of the temporary as ‘elementaries’.

    Since The Eterne has to be, of not ‘null’,
    ‘Supernatural Magic’ isn’t required;
    So, there’s only the natural as the base;
    One degree of freedom is its forced default.

    Motion is a must, or naught would happen;
    It can’t have parts, so it’s continuous;
    No end, it must e’er return to itself.
    There can’t be anything else but it.

    It is everywhere, with no gaps of ‘zilch’;
    It waves, as is ubiquitous in nature,
    Rearranging to the elementary
    Particles at stable rungs of quanta.

    Only quantum fields fit the criteria;
    Particles as spigots failed to flow,
    Newton’s ‘Space’ and ‘Time’ disappeared via
    Einstein’s relativity special and general.

    Quantum field points that must spring up and down
    Form the field’s waves by dragging on others.
    These sums of harmonic oscillations
    Force the fixed quanta energy levels.

    So the wave estimate proves to be right;
    An electron/photon goes through both slits
    Because it is a spread out field quantum.
    Quantum jumps cannot be wave fractionals.

    The universe is a large quantum field,
    For the 25 quantum fields interact,
    This containing the whole of physics.
    There’s no ‘God’s’ eye view; anything happens.

    The anything of the massive universe
    Is a lot of needed extravagant junk,
    For on Earth the right conditions obtained,
    Our planet being where and what it has to be.

    Cosmic and biological evolution were forced,
    Stars collecting the elementaries,
    Producing all the atomic elements
    That went on toward molecules, cells, and more.

    All this took 13.5 billion years,
    Since, again, there were no hoodoo shortcuts.
    Life and consciousness emerged, no ‘Mojo’—
    Since long ago on Earth they were not there!

    Our planet is very good at promoting life,
    But it is much better at extinguishing it.
    Of the billions upon billions of organic things,
    99.99% are no longer around here living.

    Of all extinctions, the Permian was the worst.
    245 million years ago, for 95% of species perished,
    Suddenly disappearing from the fossil recording.
    Life had almost come to a total obliterationing.

    “Hurray,” said the shrew; now I can evolve!

    ‘You’ were once a lucky shrew, darting all about,
    But then attached to a favorable evolutionary line…
    Every single one of your forbears on both sides
    Being attractive enough to locate a loving mate,
    And they fortunately had the good health to celebrate!

    Our blind-fated path was the further paved
    When disasters finished most of the species.
    Far from a feature of Intelligent Design,
    It opened up the space that was needed.

    The Downfall of ‘Beyond’ and ‘Extra’
    ‘Magic’ has fallen by the wayside, it
    As trancendence an intangible writ,
    Unable to be distinct from matter,
    Having to talk/walk the talk/walk of it.

    An extra distinct realm isn’t needed,
    As ‘intangible’, ‘ineffable’, etc.,
    For it only begs the question—regress!—
    And as separate couldn’t have effect.

    The ‘immaterial’ and ‘nonphysical’
    Haven’t shown anything at all to date,
    Plus, all the more they’d have to be explained;
    The ‘supernatural’ claim has to fail.

    Five billion years ago there was no life
    Or consciousness, and now they are both here,
    Thus, they emerged, evolving during that time;
    So, there’s no need for any ‘hyperphysical’.

    Where’s the esoteric among atoms?
    What inside their doings would be else wise?
    Do molecules swirl into spooky states?
    What their secret patterns hidden away?

    The light atomic elements were prime,
    And the stars made more, on up through iron,
    And the rest were from collisions/novae;
    So, what unknown secrets would they contain?

    The ‘God’ idea has fallen from its throne;
    Forever quantum fields’ excitations’
    Elementary quanta roll on the fields
    That are everywhere and remain intact.

    Epilog

    The quantum fields’ unity is the Whole,
    Being ever, exhausting Reality,
    Unbreakable and Unmakeable,
    As partless and continuous monads.

    All that emerges is still the fields at heart,
    Though secondary and temporary,
    Arising and at some time returning;
    The quantum fields are indivisible.

    Quantum fields are the fundamental strokes
    Whose excitations at harmonics cloak
    The quanta with the stability
    To persist and thus obtain mobility.

    The elementary particles beget,
    As letters of the Cosmic alphabet,
    And combine in words to write the story
    Of the stars, atoms, cells, and life’s glory.

    Why Something?

    Quantum states melt via uncertainty,
    And this means that no quantum property
    Can e’er be zero—a precise amount,
    And so it is that motion can ne’er cease.

    The Something

    The quantum field is the bridge between ‘Nil’
    And basic matter, and can ne’er be still;
    Thus the ‘vacuum’ is the quietest field—
    The closest approach to ‘Nothing’ that can be.

    No ‘Null’ nor Matter Full

    ‘Nothing’ had no chance to be the hero,
    Plus QM scrubs the idea of zero
    Out of the physical world of being;
    ‘Vacuum’ ne’er sleeps, but’s e’er up to something.

    A Mere Blip

    But for the small quantum uncertainty,
    The Cosmos sums to naught, its lunch being free:
    No net electric charge; a weightless brick;
    Minus-potential = plus-kinetic.

    The Impossibles

    Oh, those imaginings of what can’t be!
    Such as Nought, Stillness, and the Block’s decree,
    As well as Apart, Beginning, and End,
    The Unfixed Will, Blame, Fame, and Theity.
  • Can theory of nothing challenge God?
    Quantum scientists never actually see anything in the quantum realm, they infer such things as Quarks & Quantum Fields from mathematical reasoning. Even the so-called "particles" of QFT are "virtual" (i.e. potential or imaginary or Platonic forms). — Gnomon

    They see the jets of the quarks. The virtual particles are but the non-quantum level excitations that can't be at a stable quantum rung of energy and so they collapse rather instantly. We make all sorts of devices based on QFT.

    The physical did it all on the physical Earth, forming life from none, unto the complexity of today’s life. It didn’t need any help from a ‘non-physical, and it couldn’t even receive any ‘non-physical’ input because it can’t entertain the ‘non-physical’, plus the ‘non-physical’ can’t speak the physical.

    This is also what doomed Decartes’ distinct mental and physical realms: they couldn’t exchange energy.

    The addition of a ‘non physical’ or 'intangible' only enlarges the question to produce a regress.
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