I was addressing something that Harry Hindu said (and I assumed that you meant to defend his claim). He said: "the meaning of a yellow banana is that is it ripe. It's blackness means it is rotten. We don't need language to know this", and this is the claim that I was criticizing. Was your story meant to illustrate this or something else? — Fafner
I think that your story already presupposes that the monkey can understand what 'the banana is ripe' (or that it isn't) mean - but remember, what you are supposed to explain is how the monkey acquires the ability to represent the ripeness of the banana in the first place. — Fafner
How would you go about proving/disproving this principle? I'd say the PSR is grounded firmly on evidence which spans across all of history. If you think it's false then the burden of proof falls on your shoulders. — TheMadFool
I disagree. I don't think you've thought through what "identity" really means on a practical basis.
The space is what the boat was designed and constructed for. It is the objective of the boat building process. How a ship will be used and continues to be used is a bigger part of it's identity than some specific piece of wood. — T Clark
Many rivers are dry for long-periods during the year. They don't stop being rivers. If there's a flood, and water starts running in locations where it doesn't normally, is that suddenly a river? — T Clark
suppose a monkey encounters a yellow banana which happens to be rotten, should we say that the monkey infers that he made a mistake about the banana being ripe, — Fafner
or maybe it had the a disjunctive concept that a yellow banana represents either being ripe or rotten? (in which case it didn't made a mistake). Is there a way to decide what the monkey "means" just by knowing its causal history of interactions with bananas?
But this doesn't make the color yellow itself into a symbol for ripeness. — Fafner
Sure, she understands the sounds, but in terms of her own thought processes, she doesn't rely on language. For example, should she think about where Fiona is, the meaning of those thoughts are not internally reduced to language. — Hanover
I would be stopping myself because when I communicate, it is my intention that others understand me. If I just used any scribble to meaning anything then I wouldn't be communicating. — Harry Hindu
The reason people use words is to communicate. How they use the words is what they communicate. You have an idea you want to communicate and if you don't use the words just right, then you end up not communicating at all. — Harry Hindu
What reason would you use words at all if not to communicate their meaning as understood in the dictionary? — Harry Hindu
Again, if meaning is use, then I can use any word, or any scribble for that matter, to mean anything I want. — Harry Hindu
We can't prove that something doesn't exist directly. We have to first assume that it does. The next step would be to look for it. When the search is negative we may conclude nonexistence. In short nonexistence can be proved only negatively.
Likewise, to prove something has no reason/cause we have to first assume that it does (an instance of PSR) and only when such a search comes up with nothing can we say that said thing has no reason. — TheMadFool