Ah yes the Irish Bible.

However the idea of reincarnation certainly wasn't up for debate at all. — TiredThinker

Most Christians today are not aware that the early founders of Christianity were Platonists and there is evidence reincarnation was taught for the first few centuries.

...then what else do you have to add to this conversation other than telling us of the obvious complications that accompany various surgical procedures? — Hanover

Complications? Yeah I'd say it's pretty damn complicated to do the impossible.

Tom Storm expressed support towards transgender people, and got criticized with a dumb argument that being transgender equals to horrible things. That's a gross generalization, and it's a clear example of inappropriate transphobia. — pfirefry

Apparently your reading comprehension is lacking. So desperate to virtue signal..

Point out one example of transphobia in this thread.

It took you 3 mins to come to a conclusion that affirms your biases. Nope I will not provide you with more studies that you will not read.

Are you saying that you don't have a source? If not then why do you believe that there is a high rate of regret? If your opinion is based on some evidence that show me the evidence — Michael

Vandenbussche, Elie (2021) - "Detransition-Related Needs and Support: A Cross-Sectional Online Survey"

Singh, Devita Bradley, Susan and Zucker, Kenneth, (2021) - "A Follow-Up Study of Boys With Gender Identity Disorder"

Cantor, James (2016) - "Do Trans Kids Stay Trans When They Grow Up?"

Clarke, Anna Churcher (2019) - "‘Taking the Lid Off the Box’: The Value of Extended Clinical Assessment for Adolescents Presenting with Gender Identity Difficulties"

Davenport, Charles W (1986) - "A Follow-Up Study of 10 Feminine Boys"

Delay, Dawn; Martin, Carol Lynn; Cook, Rachel E; Hanish, Laura D (2018) - “The Influence of Peers During Adolescence: Does Homophobic Name Calling by Peers Change Gender Identity?”

Dhejne, Cecilia; Lichtenstein, Paul; Boman, Marcus; Johansson, Anna LV; Långström, Niklas; Landén, Mikael (2011) - "Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden"

Drummond, KD; Bradley, SJ; Peterson-Badali, M; Zucker, KJ (2008) - "A Follow-Up Study of Girls with Gender Identity Disorder"

Green, R (1987) - "The 'Sissy-Boy Syndrome' and the Development of Homosexuality"

Kosky, RJ (1987) - "Gender-disordered Children: Does Inpatient Treatment Help?"

Lebovitz, PS (1972) - "Feminine Behavior in Boys: Aspects of Its Outcome."

Marchiano, Lisa (2017) - "Outbreak: On Transgender Teens and Psychic Epidemics"

Money, J; Russo, AJ (1979) - "Homosexual Outcome of Discordant Gender Identity/Role: Longitudinal Follow-Up."

Singh, Devita (2012) - "A Follow-Up Study of Boys with Gender Identity Disorder"

Steensma, Thomas D; McGuire, Jenifer K; Kreukels, Baudewijntje PC; Beekman, Anneke J; Cohen-Kettenis, Peggy Tine (2013) - "Factors Associated with Desistence and Persistence of Childhood Gender Dysphoria: A Quantitative Follow-Up Study"

Wallien, Madeleine SC; Cohen-Kettenis, Peggy Tine (2008) - "Psychosexual Outcome of Gender-Dysphoric Children"

Zuger, B (1978) - "Effeminate Behavior Present in Boys from Childhood: Ten Additional Years of Follow-Up"

Zuger, B (1984) - "Early Effeminate Behavior in Boys: Outcome and Significance for Homosexuality"

Studies about trans regret from unbiased sources get blocked due to fears about political correctness. For example

A therapist says he is "astonished" by a university's decision to stop him studying people who decide to reverse gender reassignment operations.

James Caspian wanted to write a thesis on "detransition" as part of his master's degree in counselling and psychotherapy at Bath Spa University.

He said it was rejected by the university's ethics committee because it could be "politically incorrect".

Mr Caspian, a counsellor who specialises in therapy for transgender people, told Radio 4: "I was astonished at that decision.

"I think that a university exists to encourage discussion, research - dissent even, challenging perhaps ideas that are out of date or not particularly useful."

He says he wanted to study people who had swapped gender and then changed their minds after coming across evidence of a growing number of people who regretted having the surgery and finding no research had been done into the subject.

Better 'not to offend

He amended his proposal - to include people who had transitioned to men and reverted to living as women but without reversing their surgery - and resubmitted it, but it was rejected by the ethics committee.

"The fundamental reason given was that it might cause criticism of the research on social media and criticism of the research would be criticism of the university and they also added it was better not to offend people," he said.

According to the Times, it was rejected because "engaging in a potentially politically incorrect piece of research carries a risk to the university".

American transgender activist Riki Wilchins said studies on transgender people could have a "political undercurrent" and potentially have a negative effect on the way they are treated.

"People have been launching studies that undercut transgender people's access to surgery for decades now," she told Radio 4.

But Mr Caspian said older studies were out of date and the research was necessary "to help people".

He added: "The whole field has completely changed over the last few years.

"The idea that we might use the information from the research I was going to do in a way that wouldn't help people is completely wrong."

He is considering a legal challenge but is waiting for the university to conclude an internal investigation.

This researcher ultimately submitted and lost a legal challenge. Go free speech!

The survey in 2015 was conducted by national center for transgender equality. I would present you a non-bias source but unfortunately the entire western media is pumping out pro trans propaganda

A survey conducted by by a trans rights activist organisation is sure not to have a pro trans agenda. Right? Surely not a conflict of interest. This is propaganda. Just like all western mainstream media has a pro trans agenda.

'Saved' has nothing to do with favourable outcome in a particular circumstance. Even most Christians don't mean it that way.

All spiritual paths have the same kernel of truth. Tat tvam asi. Religions are imperfect vehicles to realise this and most people don't, because the religious tend to be exclusivist and ritualistic. However even in Christianity you can find the less trodden path and often ignored ones, like Maister Eckhart: "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." It's the Atman knowing Brahman in the Hindu tradition. Even Buddhists practice bhakti, devotion to God, as do all other religions.

You support thousands of young women including teenage girls having healthy breasts removed, the indoctrination of children, undermining women's rights, the existence of 100 genders and so on.

So there is nothing noble about your position — Andrew4Handel

:100:

There are many, many cases of post-operation regret but for some reason that part never gets highlighted. (That would perhaps put a stop to the delusion that science can change sex organs). The operations are simply body mutilations. This is not something praiseworthy and neither is encouraging children to take puberty blockers.

How did the baby navigate the penile canal? — Hanover

By exploding the penis to smithereens. Don't worry though, it wasn't a real penis and they sewed another one back on afterwards.

Pi is an exact number because it has one value: it is the length of a circle's circumference divided by its diamter. — Cuthbert

Pi defined this way will never give a consistent concrete value. It is only exact in an ideal sense.

I don't have any objection to people masquerading, as long as they--and society--are clear and honest about what they are doing. — Bitter Crank

:100: agree. Demanding that the rest of society play along with the charade is the problem. Better refer to random fragile being as xer person who menstruates on Tuesdays and chestfeeds on Fridays, otherwise they will cry and shit their pants. Madness. Surgeons are mutilating bodies for coins. Doesn't that go against the hyppocratic oath? Wth is going on?

It's literally scientifically impossible to change sex. Sewing a sausage dick on isn't going to change that. Such a thing is delusional and we should treat it as such.

I'm probably going to get banned for stating this fact.

Messiah means anointed one. One who is a prophet of God and who proclaims the truth of God to a chosen people, in a particular place at a particular time. In this way Messiahs have appeared throughout history. Messiah is interchangeable with enlightened being. Buddha, Maharishi, Jesus, Maister Eckhart, Lao Tzu.. all realised and pointed towards the same ineffable source. Every religion has its non-dual insight at its core.

Are any numbers exact? What is meant by 'exact'?

Look into advaita vedanta.

"What Constitutes A Philosopher?"

Why does this question matter? Yet another categorization attempt that is so typical of philosopher. Is that what philosophy is? The practice of demarcation? Setting boundaries? The intellect can only delineate and carve up, anatomise and atomise. Voilà, a description of typical western philosophers. Eastern philosophers would be described in another manner.

P.s. Me? I too will sometimes blow a runny nose but I don’t make much of it — javra

It's a demon exiting your body! Or perhaps not, though it is a curious historical quirk, originating from superstitious beliefs, that we utter "bless you" when someone sneezes. So as protect the devil from taking the sneezers soul, or so was believed during plague times. In french it's "À vos souhaits". Germans have "gesundheit". Further back, in antiquity, the phrase was "Que Jupiter te conserve!"("may Jupiter keep you!"), or simply "salve" ("health").

If one believed in magic, one might say these phrases are magical incantations. But I don't make much of it either.

Esoteric thinking?

Dance & Music!

Rhythm & Ratio!

Mathematical universe. Pythagoreanism? — Agent Smith

:meh:

...Does this forum have an ignore feature?

That's also extremely dishonest to use the quote function to attribute to someone something they never said- reported, btw — Seppo

You are right, I apologize.

Il n'est pas un saint, lui.

That is correct. Contrary to popular belief, we'll all make it to paradise, even me! — Olivier5

Yep but not without a period of punishment. This is the universalist position and there is even Biblical evidence for this. It's pretty uncommon among Christians but I have met a few people who believe this.

That's an accurate assessment and probably well covered by the likes of Hitchens and Dawkins. — Tom Storm

Hitchens and Dawkins covered this but they presented it as though a murderer could simply repent on their deathbed and get instantly into heaven. That's a strawman of Christianity that conveniently leaves out the idea of purgatory.

words that denote very different concepts — Seppo

Nothing is the absence of delineating qualities. Infinity is the absence of limiting qualities. Even on a semantic level they are not 'very different concepts'.

meditation has secretly revealed — Seppo

It's no secret and I am hardly the first person to claim something like this. The mind is stuck in the relativistic realm of concepts. That's why it cannot make sense of certain dualisms. Meditation is a different way to experience, unmediated by mind. Mock away though, I can tell you have never looked seriously into this.

And the only way "infinity and nothing are one and the same" is if you're re-defining one or both terms. Given their usual meanings in English, obviously they're very different concepts — Seppo

Yes well experience beats dictionary definition and through sustained practice of meditation one can begin to experience how these concepts dissolve into unity (as all concepts do).

Infinity and nothing are one and the same. The 2 poll options are not mutually exclusive.

The fact that the immoral literal interpretation is held to be true by a great number of your fellow-travellers, despite your sophistic brilliance, remains. — Banno

Actually, the majority of modern translations of the Bible are flawed, at least in English and French. A literal translation of the Greek word 'aion', with respect to the passages concerning damnation, would be more appropriately rendered as 'age' and not 'eternity'. It is quite a severe error that drastically alters the meaning of the passages where it appears.

Therefore, for those who are aware of the original Greek meaning the concept of punishment is finite. Although admittedly, most Christians do indeed believe that hell is eternal.

If you have some free time and the inclination watch this video for further detail.

How can that be a model of, say, the weather? — Raymond

A model does not have to be the same as the thing it models... we dont need to make models out of clouds and vapour to accurately represent precipitation. It would make modelling impossible.

Mathematical models are another example.

This is really a nonsense conversation.

As I made pfirefry understand — Raymond

You tried to tell a programmer, @pfirefry , that he doesn't use models. That is just not the case. Programmers use models. Data is stored as a logical structure and thus databases/logical memory models the way information is represented and stored.

The computer program, by means of computer language, lets, on the mega rythm of the computer clock, structured voltages appear which pull structured collections of 1s and 0s through the circuit wires. — Raymond

There are actually no 1s and 0s. That's an abstraction. But yes this is roughly correct, in a fuzzy way.

How can this be a model of the real thing? — Raymond

Now you lost me. Data is the model. Nothing to do with flying btw.

I can't make sense of your post.

You don't create a model. You create a program operating on voltages and currents. Which is encoded in these currents and voltages also — Raymond

Nope. Programmers work at a high enough level of abstraction that they do indeed use models. That is true despite the fact that high level languages do get compiled all the way down to binary code, which is a symbolic representation for higher or lower voltage capacitor states. This is obviously far too complex for any human. Hence the need for higher abstractions and models.

Most people living in indigenous communities. The communities were simply wiped off from the face of the Earth. Children taken away from them to teach them the western way. — Raymond

Doubt this had much to do with science.

Don't forget the actual occurrence of hell on Earth for people who don't and didn't comply with the invented directives of science. — Raymond

For example?

Well OP? What's your response? — Agent Smith

yeah come on OP @Agent Smith has been waiting for 5 minutes already. :roll:

.

Trust is implicated here. There is too much for any single person to know about technology. I trust the vaccines work. I trust the brakes on my car work.

I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if the following observation has already been mentioned.

There are passages in the Bible which indicate that God has predetermined each man to his particular fate. Indeed many Christians believe this to be the case and I have personally known believers who considered themselves "blessed" to have been chosen to be believers. Of course this line of thinking means that the non-believers were also predestined to be non-believers. Considered in this respect, it appears that God has created certain men specifically to burn in hell for eternity. It puts a strange twist on this question of the moral character of Christians. Conversion would be more akin to waking up to a predetermined fate.

Regardless, there is a perverse rationality at play for Christians who try to convert non-believers, because they genuinely believe said non-believers will suffer eternal punishment. At least there is a rationality there, but the Christians who believe in eternal damnation and yet don't bother trying to convert others would seem to be more morally reprehensible.