• Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    People were mainly thinking about justice for the black guy who was brutally murdered by the white cop. Public safety was the concern that prompted forbearance on the part of riot police.

    Did Democrat politicians play it for all it was worth? Probably. I don't see how you'd identity that as the basis for anything. That's just what smart politicians do.

    But we're agreeing here. The point of others is that politics has no role in the justice system, that Justice stands upon Mount Sinai as truth, and that its wisdom is to be imparted on the masses regardless of consequence. What you're saying is that temperance in the name of pragmatics is appropriate. If that is conceded, then you have to ask yourself with Trump whether forebearance makes sense in terms of causing outrage among his supporters and an empowering of his position.

    I don't agree that Clinton should have been prosecuted for perjury. Holding people accountable for their misdeeds and promoting justice is important, but it's not the only thing that is important.

    After years and years of litigation, let us assume that Trump is found guilty and the convictions are all upheld on appeal so that our now 80+ year old man can placed on probation or whatever, and in the meantime, you've polarized a huge segment of society even more and empowered a position that would have been forgotten.

    The political energy for change is limited, meaning we have limited ability to multi-task. What do we want to spend our time on? Gun violence, medical care, criminal justice reform, climate change, Trump's form filing, Hunter Biden's computer, or whatever else?

    Is anyone really going to be surprised if Biden gets indicted for something some day in retaliation? The only thing that will save him from that is his age.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    That's what bothers me. That you don't even worry that the justice system is run by the politicians.unenlightened

    Not sure what apolitical means. Whether the person in power is appointed, elected, born into power, or the product of a coup, it's still politics.

    If you mean democratic power ought be checked to a greater degree than it is in the administration of justice, then that's just a matter of degree.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    That wasn't due to a lack of interest in law enforcement. They were trying to avoid making the protesters more violent.frank

    The basis was politics, not justice. Maybe it was the right call, but the point is that politics is a valid consideration too.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    don't know what you're trying to say here. Is there evidence that some Democrat politician committed a crime and that some Democrat district attorney refused to prosecute them because they are a fellow Democrat, and that "the left" are okay with this?Michael

    Clinton committed perjury.

    assume they believe that there is a good chance of conviction, and that the consequences are that a criminal is punished for his crimes.Michael

    They had no chance of convicting Trayvon but they prosecuted anyway.

    It just strikes me as naive and unrealistic to suggest that politicians are apolitical. It's also unnecessarily cynical to suggest it's purely political. It's nuanced and multifactorial, like everything.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Either apply the law equally to all offenders or get rid of the law. Why should Trump be given special treatment just because he's a former President? It may be politically expedient, but the fair application of the law shouldn't be politically motivated.Michael

    Or pay attention to whether you're going to secure a conviction and ask yourself what the consequences of your decisions will be. I've not created a per se rule protecting former presidents. I've just asked that politicians pay attention to the political landscape.

    At least acknowledge the irony of the left demanding law and order and siding full step with law enforcement. Cities burned in lawlessness as politicians offered tempered politically motivated responses the past few years. And today it's being argued that the right is the party of innocent until proven guilty?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    I expect Hanover is consistent btw and would criticize Republicans for shooting themselves in the foot if Clinton were indicted in a red state. It's the way things are looked at over there.Baden

    The impeachment of Clinton was a massive mistake and is often cited for the reason why the Republicans lost power after great gains.

    There is a political reality that cannot be ignored. You can go on about how justice demands the prosecution of every prosecutable crime damn the torpedoes, and we can then end up with failed impeachments and acquittals followed by emboldened politicians who should have lost power.

    The Manhattan case is a case about misuse of campaign funds and falsification of records. It's a finance regulatory case.

    Prosecute the man for calling the Georgia Secretary of State and asking for fabricated votes and stop with this diversion into whether Form 1876-b (I made that form up, so don't look it up) was falsified.

    This isn't about me not caring about justice or about whatever this psychological analysis is regarding the inconsistencies in the American mindset, and I sure as hell would never vote for Trump. The man is an anti-democratic dictator wanna be.

    I wish he'd be hit for something real, not whether he might have improperly paid off the woman he slept with.

    The Clinton example is apt here. Whatever started that meaningful investigation ended in whether he lied about getting a blow job. He shouldn't have lied about it, sure, but the Republicans should have let that go.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Trump is slowly getting repositioned by the Democrats for a second presidency. Impeaching, indicting, or otherwise attempting to disqualify Trump from this election cycle is going to be seen as undemocratic and he'll become a martyr.

    I see this as a major fuck up by the Democrats. They need to run a good candidate and forget about Trump. He'll be dead before his trial and appeals.
  • The Shoutbox
    You said there were no trees to cut. You didn't say there were no trees left to cut. From that, I envisioned no trees anywhere, dead, alive, standing, or dead (maybe I said that twice). This envisioning took me back to the earliest days of creation, prior to the trees coming into existence, but sometime after the water and sky happening.

    So, no trees, no wood, and nails bereft of the warm, solid embrace of morning wood.

    At this point, we might have to submit this dispute to @T Clark. He's the wisest man any of us know. He once had me split my baby. He'll need to look up "bereft" though.
  • The Shoutbox
    Who said there is nothing for them to go into? There is, and that is precisely why the axe becomes the hammer.Ø implies everything

    Here's what you done said:

    If there are no trees to cut, but instead, only nails bereft of a wooden embrace; is the axe a chopper or a hammer?Ø implies everything

    I suppose, under a very strict set of rules of interpretation, the nails' bereftness of wood could be limited to actual wood, but under the broader metaphorical interpretive scheme I assumed, as your prose waxed poetic, "wood" referred to any embracer of a nail.

    This is to say, when you said the nail ain't got no dad burn wood to hold itself to, since you were talking like Walt fucking Whitman, I took that to mean your lonely old nail had no mate to penetrate.
  • The Shoutbox
    Chillin in my whip to some Dylan.
  • The Shoutbox
    If there are no trees to cut, but instead, only nails bereft of a wooden embrace; is the axe a chopper or a hammer?Ø implies everything

    If there are no feet, why would there be shoes?

    I mean, who's the fucker making nails when there's nothing for them to go in? I don't think anyone would know what they were. It's like if I invented film 100 years before cameras. It would be a paperweight.

    I could go on and on about this.
  • The Shoutbox
    Those sound like some huge legs.Noble Dust

    Like oak trees, with Spanish moss. Weird, right?
  • The Shoutbox
    This man took up two parking spaces at the gym. One for his car and the other for his open door so he could hang out the side and eat an apple.

    I wanted to pull in and smash his door into his legs, but I instead chose one of the other 100 or so open spots. It's the principle of the thing. The spots are for cars, not dangley legs
  • The Shoutbox
    A koan is like a joke but it's not funny. A lot of Hanover's posts might be considered koans.T Clark

    With that explanation, I suddenly became enlightened. Nirvana is meh.

    I need a religion that offers me a bunch of awkward virgins when I die.
  • The Shoutbox
    , you get paid to be a moderator here? That's amazing, especially given that there are no ads.Ø implies everything

    I don't get paid in what many refer to as "money." So, like much of philosophy, it comes down to definitions.
  • The Shoutbox
    I also have more problems with my teeth and gums than I had expected, after many decades of strong healthy teeth. It's just disappointing.Jamal

    Do you talk a lot? Sometimes people who just go on and on, flapping their gums, clanging their teeth together, they run into mouth, face, jaw, and teeth problems. My dentist told me to shut up and that pretty much cured my dental issues. He suggested I find a place to say the things I'm now shutting up about in typing form to cure me of my urge to yammer.
  • The Shoutbox
    A koan is like a joke but it's not funny. A lot of Hanover's posts might be considered koans.T Clark

    Jelly. So sad.
  • The Shoutbox
    As someone who finds sports gruesomely boring, and given the tradition of forcing sport upon men as necessary part of masculinity which is then later self-imposed by the men later, I think the allusion to self-flagellation made my spanking joke quite fitting.Ø implies everything

    Speaking of sports, I learned I was a really good ice skater fairly recently, which I never really tried much considering we have very few ice skating rinks down here. Had I been born in Canada, assuming there really is a Canada, I would have been a top hockey player and would probably have had a name with a bunch of consonants and I'd have said "eh" a lot.

    I'm glad that didn't happen to me.

    Instead, I live down where I live, have a bunch of dogs, goats, chickens, and a cat, and I landed a job at the local philosophy outfit as a moderator. It's an honest living, not the lights and glamor of hockey playing, but it suits me ok.
  • The Shoutbox
    Fred your dog or your son? I can't remember.Noble Dust

    Fred the dog eats cables. My son eats crow. It's not hard to remember.
  • The Shoutbox
    At the aforementioned water mill, I was given a 0.22 rifle and a huge amount of ammunition and was asked to deal with the coypus, otherwise known as nutria, a very large South American rodent not much smaller than the capybara. Coypus were taken to Europe and released by one of those idoitic Victorian explorer buffoons.Jamal

    I was reading about them because apparently they're a thing down in Lousiana and some family had one as a pet they raised from a pup, but the authorities said that was illegal and they had to give it away. They cried their eyes right out their head, so the wildlife po po took their boot off their necks and let them have their nasty little critter that probably runs in circles and chews up all the electrical cords.

    Fred once yanked all the internet cables out of my backyard, so the cable man had to come out there and hook them back up. I put some anti-Fred fencing around there. That way y'all didn't have to miss a single day of my postings.
  • The Shoutbox
    All that he does will be impossible for me. I like eating meat, but hunting the animals—wow, I would be scared and probably end up being eaten by a bear.javi2541997

    So hunting is not a kill or be killed sort of activity, but the hunter has the upper hand with the high powered rifle and being placed high above in a stand. Even if you were walking around quietly like Elmer Fudd trying to kill wabbits, the chances of some wild creature coming at you are hovering right around zero. It's generally much safer in the woods than on the streets.

    But, I do understand the reluctance to hunting in terms of killing an animal. I actually have never done it. I have no problem getting my meat at Kroger, but I have no desire to kill my own food. Maybe it's hypocrisy of some sort on my part, but that's how it is.

    I'm actually pretty anti-gun, which I get hurts my street cred, but I feel like if I'm ever in a position where I think I'm going to need a gun, I need to find a new position to be in.
  • The Shoutbox
    Meal: Rice soup with leeks, serrano ham, spring onion and laurel.
    No bread this time.

    My son likes to tell me how he buys 10 pound hams on the cheap and then he eats it for several weeks, living off maybe a few dollars a day on salted pig meat. It sounds like something a rebel soldier might have lived off during the civil war. I imagine him sleeping outside in the fetal position in the mud under a tree with scraps of pork in his pockets.

    He also shot, killed, cleaned, and ate a crow once. He said the meat was purple. Then there was the time he killed a deer, skinned it with a pocket knife on the ground, and went elbow deep yanking out the guts from the ground. When the zombie apocolypse comes, he will be king. Right now, those skills have limited application and are somewhat disturbing.

    The word "ham" in your story made me think of that.
  • The Shoutbox
    The heaviest, plumpest, sweetest kind.Jamal

    Is this a description of the elusive not Jewish people @Noble Dust references?

    I mean what are these people and how do I know one when I see it and what do I do with it?
  • The Shoutbox
    I hate to break it to you, but not everyone is Jewish. Can I say that? :yikes:Noble Dust

    Then what is everyone?
  • The Shoutbox
    I’m wondering what’s special about the weekend that you need more sustenance than at other times.Jamal

    It's the Sabbath. It takes a full belly to keep holy.
  • The Shoutbox
    By the way, I'm a bit hangry. I have a chicken sandwich being delivered, but I just began a three day weekend, and I require sustenance.Noble Dust

    See if you have one of those old style calendars lying around to refer to. Today is Wednesday. A three day weekend starts on Friday.
  • The Shoutbox
    Sorry Papa.Jamal

    Funnier would have been to call him daddy.
  • The Shoutbox
    Mwahahaha!Ø implies everything

    My creation run amok. I give it just a little free will, and it has no respect.

    I totally get how Yahweh must've felt.
  • The Shoutbox
    Not only are you my solitaire, you're self aware solitaire, and you spend your time analyzing what you are to me.

    You're a perfect narcissistic creation.

    Keep up the good work.
  • The Shoutbox
    The best art goes on the refrigerator, so art and sharing do seem to go together.
  • The Shoutbox
    Just got home and began my one week of free days (I work shiftsØ implies everything

    See if you can pick up some extra shifts with all this extra time on your hands.
  • The Shoutbox
    I will happily drink a Budweiser or Modelo out of whatever container. These days 24oz cans seem to be the new norm at ballparks.Noble Dust

    I haven't been to a Braves game in a while. They moved the stadium from downtown to Marietta, which is northwest of the city and I live northeast of the city, and there aren't many good east-west roads, so I would have to drive all the way down to the perimeter and then go up I-75 and that would take too long.

    That and I really am not much of a baseball fan.

    I live fairly close to the triple A minor league Braves stadium, but that's even more boring because what they do doesn't matter and the price isn't even that much cheaper.

    Their team name is the Stripers (not Strippers, which would be cooler because I like having my furniture stripped). A striper is a hybrid bass that is stocked in Lake Lanier, which apparently is a good game fish, and the stadium is sort of near Lake Lanier, if you think 30 to 45 minutes is close. Stripers don't reproduce, so they aren't invasive. Strippers do reproduce, so BE CAREFUL and DOUBLE WRAP!! It's all fun and games until you're waiting for the rugrat to reach 18 so you can take him off the rolls.
  • The Shoutbox
    And the overpriced shitty beers are on me.Noble Dust

    I actually prefer cheap beer with the plasticy taste of the cup. That's the way I first learned it tasted, so that's how I think it should be.
  • The Shoutbox
    Bite of hotdog. Slash of slaughter. Bite of hotdog. Slash of slaughter. Such was my youth. My clothes always looked crisp and clean.
  • The Shoutbox
    I used to wear red pants during that time of month when I would slaughter people. Hotdog shirt up top. Murder pants down below.
  • The Shoutbox
    Great! The hot dogs are on me.Jamal

    I had a yellow shirt that I'd wear when my kids were little and I told them it was my hotdog shirt because I could spill mustard on it and you wouldn't be able to tell.

    I'm telling you this in case I die so that I know someone will be around to pass that on.
  • The Shoutbox
    My favorite spice is Mrs. Dash. She tastes delicious and she goes on pretty much anything.

    And please, please, please let's not turn this sexual. I'm talking about just an ordinary household salty spice.
  • The Shoutbox
    There was a cat. The rats didn't give a shit.Jamal

    What was the cat's name? If it was something like Snuggles, then it's understandable that the rats wouldn't take it seriously.
  • The Shoutbox
    The typical rat solution is a cat. Just the smell of a cat scares rats. And, you get a cat, and I like cats. If you have too many cats, you have to get a dog. Too many dogs, a wolf. Too many wolfs, a cobra. Too many cobras, a mongoose. Too many mongeese (yes, mongeese), you have to get an elephant. Too many elephants, you have to get a gun. Too many guns, you have to get legislation. Too much legislation, you have to get a rat and it all starts over again.

    A fox got my chickens. I saw him run off. I ran to get my gun, but I didn't have a gun because I was at the legislation stage in my eco-system above, so I got my elephant. It was cumbersome to say the least.

    The chickens will come home to roost, and some might refuse to go in the coop, which probably has to do with pecking order and bullying, but I just throw those in there because being inside is safer than being outside.
  • The Shoutbox
    That was my favourite bit. It made me think of eggs as rockets.Jamal

    I dropped an egg as I was carrying them inside from the coop. I tried to mop it up with some straw and throw it over the fence because I didn't want animals coming around the coop smelling the rotting egg. My clean up job was typical though, and I suspect all sorts of animals are coming around right now getting close to the chicken coop. Fortunately my wife has built the coop like Fort Knox since the trauma of losing some chickens earlier.

    She just bought them a bunch of beach toys, like plastic shovels and buckets, which I've agreed they really need and that will make them happy, which seemed like the only way to agree.

    The "um, we're talking about chickens, right?" is the wrong answer in case one day your wife buys chickens and you need to know what not to say.