Some even participate. — Wheatley

That's how true theatre should be.

I think you're right. It's the public who decide what a "facts" is, not armchair philosophers. — Wheatley

The public merely observes. Swallowing everything that is served swallow-ready, without chewing, unconsciously digesting only. Who serves?

for Oliver5 there is no distinction between facts and what we take to be facts — Janus

@Olivier5 is right. A fact is a fact because our theories make them a fact. I'm not talking about lying, which can be done in every culture.

How else can it be? Observations and theory can't be separated. Pure observation is an illusion. Even the perception of a pure color is problematic. There are no "bundles of perception" which we can arbitralily select in the creative process, as Einstein claims.

Do you consider the brain as part of you. Or do you possess it?

No. People don't hold back a quality because it hasn't been "implemented" yet. — Caldwell

I'm not so sure. People have many inculculated abilities. Hidden somewhere in our foreheads. Held back by many because fear, social control (can be associated with fear), authority, lack of self confidence, shyness, or love.

Telemarketers and infomercials. — Wheatley

Haha! Good one! Though Im not sure now about my "haha"... :smile:

There are no stupid machines, only insufficient ones — Caldwell

Can we say the same of people? I think that it was a dumd card though.

This is the "you" which, indeed, is not your body, but is so much more... — Michael Zwingli

The so much more lays inside my brain and the outside world.

Christianity was largely responsible for the destruction of classical literature, — Banno

Can you blame them after what Roman empire did to them? Sometimes only a Jesus can turn his other cheeck. Im not sure they were eaten asinging by the lions. Alife yes.

Careful of contrarian ideas, or you'll end up on the moderators radar. — Wheatley

Gotcha! :smile:

Okay maybe we did touch on Reich. :cool: — Caldwell

What does the sunglassed smiley mean?

Disappointed much? — Caldwell

In you? I don't dare! :smile:

You studied a history. — Wheatley

I was about to write the same!

Trust me. I studied History and Classics and Philosophy. — Caldwell

So? What should I trust?

Good Lord! — Caldwell

I really cant tell if you are serious or not!

Wow! I was completely ignorant about the orgone accumulator. :sad: — Caldwell

Wow! Im glad to hear that! How can that be? Its part of US history. And Im not even American! Maybe, though, I know more about the US than about my own country. How can that be?

He wrote a treatise about prewar fascism. If Hitler had given some room to his orgone energy, the war would not even be imagined. I'm not an orgone (from organism and orgasm) energy defender (he examined its real existence, what's wrong with that) defender but can relate. The sexual energies are a big piwer (andcthus energy). If I walk outside I love the women but men...? Also but less!

He helped people with cancer (orgone accumulator). The song "Cloudbusting" is about him. From the persoective of his son.

And I can go on and on....

Luckily, Galileo was given a comfortable position afterwards. Willhelm Reich was unrationaly convicted by science. And his books were burned.His lab destroyed. His stuff forbiden. In 1957. In the US.

Christianity in the fourth and fifth century went out of its way to destroy temples and burn — Banno

I stand corrected...

Sigh...

The gods
In their spotting
Are the only ones
Non-rotting
While every
eternity
Bloodery
Or nitty
Nor witty
Rots to the bone
Their flesh stays young
Like their every tone
In the waters of heaven
In the aromas of hell
On Stratford on Avon
In all that they tell
Their creation runs freely
At least, so it should
Like Dan oh so Steely
Down there under the Hood
Consider them dead though
As our friend once proclaimed
Give it a go bro
Nihilistically maimed
Dwelling the Earths
Undetermined and steady
Finding love on the road
Route 66
Lacks a 6 at the end
Or at the beginning
Is it that what they meant
And made us write down
The points that we do
Or faces that frown
And on and on and on
On and on and on
And on and on and on
And on and on and on it goes
On and on and on
Oh and on and on
Yay bro's
On and on on tippy toes
Thankfull am I
They made it all happen
That I walk on and by
Them so I reackon
I tell them to screw
Turn the blind eye in them
The big bangs they blew
An Inflation divine gem

All hail to the gods...
God damn them!

His books were burned by science. Is there a law against freely experimenting by a psychceramist?

Pretty sure I didn't say that. Reich was a Psychceramicist. — Banno

I didn't say you did.

I understand where you are coming from, but strictly speaking, anybody can deem anything to be art. — Pop

One can deem indeed. The real art is to let others think this too

.

Art about art, creates a certain reality for art. — Pop

You must convince others first. Your information approach is not accepted by most people.

Rationality is at the heart of scientific endeavor. — Caldwell

So it is at the heart of religion. Galileo's conviction was a rational one!

Yes, but the subjectively reckoned "you", the "I" from your own perspective, is much more than just your body. It is the "I" which results from the constant battle between the primitive "Id" and the idealized "Superego", occurring within the continuously changing context of a feedback loop involving all of your life's experiences. That's a mouthful, is it not!? This is the "you" which, indeed, is not your body, but is so much more... — Michael Zwingli

That's what you think. There is no "superego". Though every brainless body, every I, animal or human, or even bacteria-like (which are only bodies), is super!

. Like describing a fresh spring morning in terms of molecular bonding — Constance

Oh how fresh and anew this springy information structure tickling my sensory forms, making my emotion entropy rocketing skinfo high. My emotional neuronal patterns run bezerk when I breath in these moisty misty forms. Whirlings of bloodflows inside me respond intensely to the morning magic sunlight waves entering me through my glassy eyeball spheres. Projected widely and vast over the retina in full formation. I wished I could make all other structures in formation experience the same conscious patterns I experience in-and outside me, my body structure being their willing and voluntary in-between prisinor. O jah! All formations in the world, rejoyce! And be in!

What about animal art? They build pretty things.

Not many physicists here. A pitty.

of atoms and molecules forming tissues of various types an in a particular pattern as determined by one's DNA code. — Michael Zwingli

That's exactly who I am(except for my central neres, which are inside me)! The DNA though determines only proteins. Nothing more and nothing less.

Ask Hypatia. — Banno

I asked heŕ. She said people abuse religion to excercise their natural will to have power. Once religion (or any other culture, like science) becomes the norm, they can hide behind it. To overpower other people. Like a scientist uses science to impress with their so-called intelligence. Intelligence as a means to power. To keep others, the not-knowing, the non-intelligent, down and feel more than them.

Not to mention science's intolerance towards the non-scientific.

Although slow water sounds pretty cool!

It makes me, my body, move slow when I'm cold.

Ice is just slow H20, smart guy. — praxis

Ice is ice.

Wasn't it brotherly love?

Capital needs investment — Valentinus

That's basically the same statement as "economy needs growth". Why does capital need investment? To increase it?

Christianity got there first. It's a consequence of the intolerance inherent in monotheism. — Banno

No. It's the consequence of people being intolerant.

Except when it's not (as when frozen), of course. :razz: — praxis

Frozen water is called ice. :smile:

There was a goal once scored here in a soccer game. Protest. The ball alledly went outside the field in the attack. Replay. Unclear. What to do? It took long. Was the ball completely outside the line? Nobody could see. The camera hadn't the right angle. Maybe if there was enough time this could be calculated. What to do? Goal assigned to homeplaying party.

the tragedy of their rise is the destruction of the literature and art of antiquity. — Banno

No different from some islamians indeed. Or Mohammedians.

The trouble here is of course that what counts as a suitable observation is already theoretical - already an interpretation. Observations thus cannot fulfil this role as a foundation to knowledge. — Banno

The trouble here is that you separate theory and observation.

You may be referring to the tattoos overall form, but given sufficient time that too will change. — javra

Also the butterfly will get wrinkled one day. The one on my arm that is. Unless I die premature...