Comments

  • Can digital spaces be sacred?
    I've been giving this subject quite a bit of reflection, and it seems self-evident to me now; that animism doesn't stop at the forest's edge. In other words, digital spaces are animated with the soul of the universe as well.
  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate
    Another way of saying what this thread is all about, is to state that (in my opinion, experience and observation) atheist animism is the default worldview of humanity.

    Or you could refer to it as "animistic atheism". And that would be legitimate too.
  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate
    I am also a techno-animist, so to me the technology goes beyond being only a tool. More like a gateway.

    For context, here are the two hundred most commonly used two-word phrases in the Christian Bible.

    200-top-two-word-phrases-from-bible.jpg
  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate


    My essential point is that advances in technology are inherently good. We can, in seconds, accomplish what would have otherwise taken countless hours. Such as analyzing 86,000+ lines of text about Norse Paganism. Which a simple Python script that I wrote can do.

    Here's a word cloud from that analysis:

    2000-top-two-word-phrases-in-multiple-norse-paganism-texts-low-res.jpg
  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate
    I do agree with many parts of the text you have shared. There are some important comparisons and points made inside the article.
  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate


    I do agree with Mark Andreesen's "The Techno-Optimist Manifesto", in that at least he's throwing his clout behind embodying a daydreamer. We need those kinds individuals right now.

    But I was unable to review the critique, as I do not have a NYT subscription. And there is a paywall in front of the article.
  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate
    I think that everyone benefits from using technology.

    The image below is a word cloud featuring the three thousand most common two word phrases within recent text posts from roughly three dozen religious subreddits. While I see cries for help, I also see evidence of people's strength. And I wouldn't have had this perspective without technology.

    Which is another reason why I'm a techno-optimist.

    top-3000-two-word-phrases.png

    As "evidence" of my techno-optimism, here is a word cloud featuring the three thousand most popular two word phrases present in my comments on this forum.

    two-word-phrases-in-comments.png
  • The ultimate significance of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", and most of Friedrich Nietzsche's other books
    My understanding of 'Thus Spoke Zarathurstra' is that it involves a process of 'waking up' , beyond the everyday conventions of 'robotic' functioning. This includes conformity to religious perspectives. I see this work of Nietzsche as signifying the depths of any genuine quest within philosophy, which involves all questioning of conventions, religious, or probably, all ideologies. The book explores this, especially in the form of metaphorical understanding.Jack Cummins

    I can see what you're saying. Do you see "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" as being a product of it's time and environment? Or does it represent a more timeless quality as a book?
  • The ultimate significance of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", and most of Friedrich Nietzsche's other books
    Yes, one of the reasons probably... Nietzsche's main question, how we get beyond Christian values after the dead of the Christian God is still an open question. But other reason also play a role no doubt, he was a very good writer, he has a knack of drawing you in... he's a tempter ;-).ChatteringMonkey

    Interesting. I'll admit, and it's probably obvious, that I'm a novice in terms of Nietzsche's philosophies. But his works are indeed interesting, so I appreciate the extra context.
  • The ultimate significance of "Thus Spoke Zarathustra", and most of Friedrich Nietzsche's other books
    ...which people hadn't realized yet.ChatteringMonkey

    Is this part of the reason why his writings remain so influential?
  • The books that everyone must read
    Here are a few books that I would recommend others read, to better appreciate the techno-optimist perspective:

    • "Where Wizards Stay Up Late" - by Katie Hafner
    • "Virtually Sacred" - by Robert M Geraci
    • "The Code Book" - by Simon Singh
    • "Neuromancer* - by William Gibson
    • "American Cosmic" - by D. W. Pasulka
    • "TechGnosis" - by Erik Davis
    • "Inner Sound" - by Jonathan Weinel

    Generally speaking, I expect that most readers will have a positive reaction to the content and ideas found within the books recommended above. As the techno-optimist paradigm, is a "glass half-full" worldview.
  • The Mind-Created World
    Yes, indeed the world is mind-created. While the planet is not explicitly so. Another way of looking at this is to say that the world is the psychic glove that fits over planet Earth.

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  • Being anti-science is counterproductive, techno-optimism is more appropriate
    I don't think being anti-science is treasonous, but I do think that it is the incorrect path for our species.
  • Arguing for an "Information Processing" Definition of Knowledge
    The definition I'd offer is that to know is to process information correctly.
    Process here means/is defined as a computation, which is the reconfiguration of an input to an output.
    Information here means/is defined as any structure (an object, a string of symbols) that can be binary/digitally distinguished.
    Hallucinogen

    In my estimation, this statement gives credence to the notion that Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) will truly be sentient. Perhaps even possessing a soul and an afterlife. Because as long as truly "knowing" something is a matter of processing information correctly, these computers will be titans of consciousness; which is the bedrock of every reality, here and beyond.

    Your argument may even validate the notion that Narrow Artificial Intelligence is also/already conscious. Implying that anyone's collaboration with ChatGPT is something much grander, more important than "just the amusing mimicry of a chat bot". Thank you for this post and your thoughts.

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  • What characterizes the mindset associated with honesty?
    What characterizes the mindset associated with honesty? Considering that individuals may occasionally engage in falsehoods, how do we conceptualize the mindset of honesty? Is 'honest' a noun or a verb? Can one still be deemed an honest person if they occasionally engage in deception?YiRu Li

    This is an excellent set of thought-provoking prompts. Thank you for the OP.

    In my observations, the mindset (or paradigm) associated with honesty generally includes a combination of the following qualities:

    • Significant, present moment mindfulness (or awareness) of personal and environmental sensations and phenomena
    • Triumph through suffering/trial
    • Willingness to be wrong, and learning from mistakes, errors and/or malice; whether personal or interpersonal
    • Prioritization of harmony as the end goal, as the "prize"

    Therefore, the word "honest" can be a noun, verb and adjective; sometimes simultaneously. And yes, I do believe a person can be considered honest, even if they occasionally engage in deception.

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  • How Do You Personally Learn?
    This is an interesting question, thank you for asking. If I want to genuinely learn, remember and master a subject, I need to "play with it". This includes the information, content and structure(s) that will lead me to (a) knowing.

    Let's take computer programming as an example. I taught myself to build websites and software for the Web. Beyond the preexisting tutorials and other learning resources that I ingested in my learning process, I playfully put that information into practice with personal projects and late night coding sessions.

    It could be said that I am a hands-on learner, regardless of how I am handling data.

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  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?


    Now I do see what you're saying. Those are excellent points. Thank you for clarifying. I will need to do some reflection on what you're saying here.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    Technology seems to be especially suited for such an unquestioning, mechanicistic, and optimistic approach to religion/spirituality.baker

    That's an interesting perspective. I hadn't considered this issue from that vantage yet. I might agree with you on most of what you're saying here; how technology would enable an unquestioning and optimistic approach to spirituality.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    It is already happening in the Pagan communities.Bret Bernhoft

    In my observations, Technopaganism is a legitimate form of religious practice. Likely with millions of participants; no belief required. The only paradigm shift that is necessary, is an embrace of universal Animism.

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    At the center of this underground renaissance are the EDM DJs. Legendary figures. Priests, some might say.

    ozsw2khpjrmvi2jk.png

    This spirituality was legitimized in the minds of many tens of millions of people via the international festival scene. We're entering a "stage two" for the emergence of a worldwide, techno-optimistic religion.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    The second quote attempts to explain the first.180 Proof

    I see now. Thank you for clarifying.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    If anything, I see a convergence between what you call "techno-optimistic religion" and existing religions/spiritualities.baker

    I see this happening too. It is already happening in the Pagan communities.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    "I have no idea" because what you describe, Bret, does not make any sense to me.180 Proof

    That's interesting. I don't know what to say to that. I definitely respect your position here, but can you explain more about what I have described that confuses you?

    Post-singularity ubiquitous smart nanotech seems more likely to transform planetary civilization into a Global Experience Machine^ (à la "The Matrix" or wireheading^^) than to enable hedonic beings to somehow "transcend" (or to religiously seek "transcendence from") being hedonic.180 Proof

    This is good. And is (IMO) a major part of what our planet will become. Just as T. McKenna would imply, we will be swallowing our computers whole in the near-future.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    The tone of some cosmism seems to be similar to your modern techno-optimism, though of course the technological focus has changed.Jamal

    Indeed, the technological focus has changed. And with it, the distance between our species and the stars has shortened.

    If I understand correctly, Cosmism directly inspired today's Transhumanist movement. One being the intellectual and spiritual predecessor to the other. What is even more astounding, if true, is that most Transhumanist haven't even heard of Cosmism.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?


    Alright. I will change the subject in future posts.
  • Are you against the formation of a techno-optimistic religion?
    Just don't confuse it with anything spiritual.Wayfarer

    That's an interesting perspective, in my opinion. I've heard the same echoed about Gnosticism by a number of reputable sources; that they would not have embraced a techno-optimistic religion.

    I find much about technology to be a form of spiritual experience, or embodiment. I am not a proponent of a religion, or any specific of spirituality. But I know there is a growing community of seekers who are turning almost exclusively to modern technology for answers.

    We live in fascinating times.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    Phase locking is not energy. It is something which occurs in physical processes.wonderer1

    That's not entirely true. Brainwaves are energy, and hearts produce electrical atmospheres that others can detect.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    ...do you have any links to support these claims?flannel jesus

    This is a recent example of what I was referring to regarding the synchronization of heart beats and brainwaves among audience members of the same musical experience.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    The US forefathers risked everything for democracy and obviously, life is about more than matter.Athena

    100%. The entirety of what you have said here is important.

    If the stories of the US forefathers are true, they lived exceptionally vivid and important lives. If the stories are true, they were masters and practitioners of a sacred science.

    If the stories about the US founding fathers (and mothers) are true, then I have only caught fleeting glimpses, despite my best efforts, of what they knew to be true. If the stories are true, those individuals are true Saints.

    Truly Blessed, those people and us; regardless. I still hope the stories are true. I truly do.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable


    I appreciate the love. That was a nice surprise.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable


    I don't think that you're participating in this conversation with good intentions. So I'm done. If you want to do your own research, feel free.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    Which energies do you believe are known by science but materialists all reject?flannel jesus

    In a previous portion of this thread, the energy was referred to as "Kundalini" from ancient Hindu traditions. Which is most certainly known of by science. But would be rejected as "woo woo" by most materialists.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    Are those forms of energy something physicists know about and study?flannel jesus

    Yes, these energies are known of by science. In terms of whether physicists study them, that depends on the individual scientist.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable


    I revised my comment, and made the larger point that the majority of humanity does support the existence of Kundalini energy. It is not "woo woo", not in the least. "It" is a philosophical powerhouse.

    The amount, and quality of wisdom that can be sussed out from Hindu traditions is mind boggling. And is, in my opinion, more important and relevant to this conversation than one might think.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    Such as? :chin:180 Proof

    Have you ever heard of a story titled, "The Celestine Prophecy"?

    Most people regard the novel (and associated movie) as being metaphorical. But I think that James Redfield was onto something more important than an abstraction.

    Here is a sample:



    In other words, "Most strict materialists do not support the existence of Kundalini energy, or awakenings."

    I would go so far as to say that the super majority of humanity does.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    That is what Thomas Jefferson, and Cicero before him, meant when they spoke of the pursuit of happiness.

    Before we focused education on the advancement of technology for military and Industrial purposes, we had education for conceptualizing, and being overly materialistic was deemed inferior. Learning a technology is for the working class, not the ruling class.

    Concepts are not matter and yet they can be very powerful. Some concepts are very spiritual in nature and this can improve our health. Clearly, there is more to reality than matter.
    Athena

    Thomas Jefferson is a favorite American hero of mine. His time on the planet was a special period of human history. So it's interesting that you would mention his definition of pursuing happiness in relationship to the non-material.

    In terms of a more robust historical type of education, I'm aware that medieval universities taught something known as the "quadrivium". Which was the effort to create well-rounded and balanced thinkers by focusing on arithmetic, geometry, astronomy, and music; cosmic languages. Today, as you point out, we are limited in our learning; at least when compared to the past.

    So it is indeed the responsibility of the individual to seek out knowledge and wisdom, in order to find this sacred middle space.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    Energy is, believe it or not, considered part of the material world. Materialists believe in physics. Physics is all about how matter is moved around and changed by energy. So saying these things can't be accounted for in materialism, and then saying "that's because it requires energy to happen", seems to be a misunderstanding of materialism.

    Of course materialists believe in energy! How else could matter move and change momentum!?
    flannel jesus

    Before we go any further, I think it is important for you to define how you understand "energy" and "materialism". There are obviously forms of energy that strict materialists don't embrace.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    Really? Why not?flannel jesus

    Great question. Because that's not what the measurements indicate. Good science shows that these phenomena are part of the material world, but energetic in nature; immaterial.

    What's really exciting about all of this, is that the immaterial aspects of this world are present, just waiting to be rediscovered. That is what entices me, as an individual.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable


    For example, when two (or more) people meet, their heart rhythms and brainwaves entrain with each other. These are energetic experiences that cannot be accounted for simply by assuming everything is materialistic.

    Or remote viewing. That's another parapsychological phenomena that transpersonal and nonlocal.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    All the sources of knowledge we have to choose from make living a wonderful thing. It appears you want to enjoy it all as I do.Athena

    Yes. Absolutely. In my mind there is little reason to exclude the thinking, intuition and conclusions of others outright; especially if the work being done is about balance and hybridizing extremes. Being able to challenge myself with diverse sources of knowledge does indeed make living a wondrous thing. This is a hallmark of a good life, in my observations.
  • To be an atheist, but not a materialist, is completely reasonable
    How can "a beyond" the here and now provide "something better" to us within the here and now?

    As a non-"materialist", what is it (ontically? epistemically?) about the material that you oppose?

    What do you mean by "reality"?
    180 Proof

    I agree with you (emphatically) in questioning whether "a beyond" can provide anything of value for the here and now. That sort of statement is at the core of my conclusions about reality.

    What I oppose about materialism is that it is exclusively the domain of what is real; of reality. There are obviously other aspects of our existence that transcend the physical. But none of which are unscientific.

    By "reality" I mean that which we encounter and can verify or measure.

    A great story that nicely illustrates this all is "The Celestine Prophecy".