Mission accomplished? We will see in due time. — Wallows

What do you mean by that ?

What do you mean by that ? — Amity

Well, what I mean is that we will see what happens with this thread. If it fulfilled its purpose of organizing some interest in a new reading group of Fear or Trembling or Kierkegaard's Concept of Anxiety. Those are the top two contenders as it stands.

If it fulfilled its purpose of organizing some interest in a new reading group of Fear or Trembling or Kierkegaard's Concept of Anxiety. Those are the top two contenders as it stands. — Wallows

Right.

I'm feeling a lot of emotions lately, so maybe something therapeutic... like Kierkegaard or safe, like Kant? — Wallows

It will be interesting to discover or uncover any therapeutic value in either.
Fear and Anxiety both fascinating topics.

It will be interesting to discover or uncover any therapeutic value in either. — Amity

Philosophy as therapy is my guiding ethos. But, then again, some don't feel like they need it. So, wants seem to be at play here.

The SEP article is good in many ways but fails to represent a joy Kierkegaard takes in representing his own experience.

The SEP article is good in many ways but fails to represent a joy Kierkegaard takes in representing his own experience. — Valentinus

I think it an excellent, substantial and enlightening overview, including further links. Unfortunately, the podcast and transcript links I provided were too informal and superficial for my liking.

In the meantime I discovered this informative video and transcript. It uses quotes from the Alastair Hannay translation.

https://academyofideas.com/2018/02/soren-kierkegaard-psychology-anxiety/

'In order to understand anxiety it is helpful to contrast it with fear, both of which are emotional responses to perceived threats. However, the types of threat which triggers these emotions differ. Fear is usually triggered by a threat which is known to us and located in some external object or situation. Anxiety, on the other hand, consists in the feeling of being threatened yet unable to know from where the danger arises...
... few can escape from the milder form of anxiety which permeates the background of our daily existence. To differentiate it from severe anxiety, this more common form is sometimes called “angst” or “existential anxiety”, and rather than attempting to alleviate it Soren Kierkegaard considered it an indispensable ingredient in a life lived to full potential.

“If man were a beast or an angel, he would not be able to be in anxiety. Since he is both beast and angel, he can be in anxiety, and the greater the anxiety, the greater the man.” (Soren Kierkegaard, The Concept of Anxiety)...
...
' Learning to know anxiety is an adventure which every man has to affront…He therefore who has learned rightly to be in anxiety has learned the most important thing.” (Soren Kierkegaard, The Concept of Anxiety)'
----------

It ends with an encouragement:

...learn to be anxious in the right way. Or as the psychologist James Hollis explains:

“Thus we are forced into a difficult choice: anxiety or depression. If we move forward, as our soul insists, we may be flooded with anxiety. If we do not move forward, we will suffer the depression, the pressing down of the soul’s purpose. In such a difficult choice one must choose anxiety, for anxiety is at least the path of personal growth; depression is a stagnation and defeat of life.” (James Hollis, Swamplands of the Soul)

-------------

I am not convinced that the Either/Or of the 'difficult choice' between anxiety and depression is something that we are 'thus...forced into'. Or that 'one must choose anxiety'.
However, I am open to the idea that anxiety in itself is part of the 'adventure' of life and to engage with it in a positive sense.

I have ordered the Hannay book.

Valentinus, as a matter of interest, if the SEP fails to represent a joy Kierkegaard takes in representing his own experience, where do you suggest that subjective, special joy can be found ? In the book itself ?

Whoever takes part in a reading group should work through the original along with everyone else, and only consult the secondary literature occasionally, to supplement and clarify the reading. — jamalrob

Doesn't it make more sense for each member to use secondary work of their own choosing and use that to help them interpret the primary source before posting in the group? — jamalrob

I appreciate the guidance here. I hope that you, or another mod, might continue this kind of support if any discussion takes place. However, I realise that the team is kept busy elsewhere.

I'm aware of not wanting to put in the effort, and rather a free observer with some guiding theme or companion. — Wallows

If you're not willing to properly take part in a reading group, why would you think it okay to ask the people who are doing the work to do it in a way that suits you?
— jamalrob

Please define PROPERLY, here. — Wallows

Wallows, I think you know very well what jamalrob meant by this. If you don't then look at what you said about effort and being an observer.

Wallows, I think you know very well what jamalrob meant by this. If you don't then look at what you said about effort and being an observer. — Amity

So, just a disclosure. I never took it upon myself to do the heavy lifting. I'm a wallower so, I just kind of wallow and organize stuff without necessarily feeling like I'm not satisfying expectations. Equating the two tends to produce unhappiness with my performance, which I never guaranteed or is a sine qua non for any successful reading group.

*Goes and meditates*

Valentinus, as a matter of interest, if the SEP fails to represent a joy Kierkegaard takes in representing his own experience, where do you suggest that subjective, special joy can be found ? In the book itself ? — Amity

The SEP is good. My observation is not a criticism of their work. But every summary is a step back from reading the writing.

Some writers ask you to find them in your attempts to understand what is being said. Others confront you and call upon you to do stuff. Kierkegaard is writing in the second way.

Give it a shot and get back to me if no joy seems possible.

. I never took it upon myself to do the heavy lifting. — Wallows

I'm not sure a debate in the hypothetical about what the best book would be to discuss in a reading group is a worthy topic for discussion. If you want to choose a book and then proceed with an actual discussion about that book, now is the time. In 24 hours I close this discussion.

Then, you don't want to be the manager here. That's fine. I propose that we read both works so everyone ends up happy. What do you think?

I'm not sure a debate in the hypothetical about what the best book would be to discuss in a reading group is a worthy topic for discussion. I — Hanover

Well, we could discuss that too :nerd:
However, I am following advice to discontinue.

From the first post casually asking about next reading group proposal and a lazy demand for a 'companion' to work with, it should have been obvious that there was a touch of the dilettante.
At least now there is an honesty and an admission there would be no attempt to do any heavy lifting.
I doubt a wallower and casual organiser of stuff would even lift the book to read it.

Keeping it all casual bypasses hard work of not only reading but understanding.
I understand that might be a symptom of anxiety of not achieving any expectations, real or imagined.
Who knows...or cares ? Who benefits or loses out ?

A reading group on a forum is perhaps not the best way to find whatever joy might be found in a philosophy book. It depends on what you want or need.

I am glad the thread was started. I have been introduced to a book I had never heard of.
However, there are probably better ways than this apparent game-playing exercise to find encouragement and inspiration.

The SEP...every summary is a step back from reading the writing.

Some writers ask you to find them in your attempts to understand what is being said. Others confront you and call upon you to do stuff. Kierkegaard is writing in the second way.
Give it a shot and get back to me if no joy seems possible. — Valentinus

Yes. The SEP was only preparatory reading.
I will read the book offline at my own pace. Might find what you speak of...
I don't have high expectations of my ability but at least I have some and will give it a go.
I can wallow too. It is not Either/Or. And it is not a forever or negative state as the word can imply.
Depends what you wallow in.

In any book discussion, I don't intend to wallow in a hollow depression of mud, casually tumbling about.

Now disengaging.

Now disengaging. — Amity

So, this thread closes in almost 3 hours. I can't start new topics so I suggest @Valentinus, that you start a new thread. Since the only fair choice is to serve on the basis of a first come first serve and Fear and Trembling was proposed first, then I propose we start with that book. Eventually we might get to Kierkegaard's Concept of Anxiety.

Or @I Like Sushi can start a new thread alternatively.

What do you mean that you cannot start new topics?

What do you mean that you cannot start new topics? — Valentinus

Orders from the top.

I need to get some experience at starting topics on specific issues before attempting to start a reading thread again.

:ok:

@I Like Sushi, our hopes rest with you.

@Hanover, as a last resort and I'm not sure I'm repeating myself with a mum response, will you start a new thread on Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling given that you showed interest in it?

I’d have to read it all the way through first, but that won’t happen for at least a month because I’ve got several on the go already. If someone started a thread I’d probably dip in a bit.

Richard Bach's book, Illusions, The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah has more useful philosophical thoughts than all the books written by the supposed masters.

If philosophy truly is your thing...give it a read.

And perhaps, R. D. Laing's Knots.

Philosophy is more fun when not taken too seriously.