• charleton
    1.2k
    There is for each person using the word.BlueBanana

    Not even that. What a word denotes can change, and what it connotes changes constantly.
    Since you are not even the same person you were last week, the meanings you hold change with you.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    888

    So does that mean we shouldn’t keep people in prison for longer than a week? Considering it won’t be the same person...
  • Samuel Lacrampe
    644
    Hello.
    To demonstrate that words are separate things from meanings.

    (1) If x = y, then changing the value of x would change the value of y proportionately, and vice versa, changing the value of y would change the value of x proportionately. If not the case, then x is a separate thing from y.

    (2) Words are made of letters. The word 'bridge' in english and 'pont' in french have the exact same meaning, and yet are completely different words, for they are composed of completely different letters.

    (3) Similarly, the word 'bank' has a completely different meaning in the proposition 'river bank' and 'bank account', despite being the exact same word both times.
  • Wayfarer
    6k
    I can't help but see it as something transcendental. As real as any object is, yet not made from atoms.

    What are your thoughts on this?
    Mr Phil O'Sophy

    The fact that the same idea can be represented in any number of languages, or many kinds of media, does indeed imply that the semantic content of a statement is separable from the syntactical form that it takes.
  • unenlightened
    2.3k
    The fact that some countries drive on the left and others on the right by no means implies that one can drive on any side of the road. The side of the road one has to drive on is arbitrary in one sense, but certainly not separable from the road. You can use 'separable' to mean 'banana' if you like, but don't expect much mutual understanding to ensue.

    Or to make a catchphrase: meaning is shared.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    888
    The fact that some countries drive on the left and others on the right by no means implies that one can drive on any side of the road.unenlightened

    amazing point! lol

    Its strange how these different threads seem to converge. this point seems to link into the question of gender.
  • Banno
    2.7k
    The fact that the same idea can be represented in any number of languages, or many kinds of media, does indeed imply that the semantic content of a statement is separable from the syntactical form that it takes.Wayfarer
    Pay more attention to @unenlightened.
  • Wayfarer
    6k
    Why? Is he feeling neglected?
  • csalisbury
    1.3k
    @unenlightened

    The fact that some countries drive on the left and others on the right by no means implies that one can drive on any side of the road. The side of the road one has to drive on is arbitrary in one sense, but certainly not separable from the road. You can use 'separable' to mean 'banana' if you like, but don't expect much mutual understanding to ensue.

    Or to make a catchphrase: meaning is shared.

    yes sure, yeah definitely, but when people come on here and grouse about the inadequacy of meaning - well they're probably coming from somewhere more frustrating than driving regulations. People start talking about the failure of language, usually, when language has failed them. When there's something needs expression that linguistic expression just isn't up to.

    "yeah but wittgenstein' yeah but, c'mon

    What isn't being said? And why can't it be said? That's the heft and substance of what's being talked about. Even if the tortured road leads from the village, thru the crocodile thing, real bad, then back to the village - even then, talking about the village in a different, more abstracted way, isn't enough.

    what side of the road. it's like your dad saying 'what do you mean you saw the [weird, disrupting thing] we got plenty of stew in the pot!

    wittgenstein isn't a shaman and common sense isn't profound just bc you've flirted with the weird stuff.
  • unenlightened
    2.3k
    What isn't being said? And why can't it be said? That's the heft and substance of what's being talked about.csalisbury

    It's the heft and substance of a woozle. What isn't being said is enormous, too big to heft, too substantial to be articulated. You have shaved an infinitesimal amount from it, but don't expect me to express what you cannot manage. D'you know what I mean?

    But my previous response already declared my own inarticulateness on this subject, with chapter and verse from the failed analytical project: The meaning of meaning is endless.

    Personally, I'm more in favour of forgetting meaning as something that looks after itself; I have a friend who punctuates every other sentence with 'D'you know what I mean?' It doesn't clarify what he says, and I never bother to answer.unenlightened
  • Vaskane
    8
    Mr Phil,

    I enjoyed the quote you posted, and to answer your question, yes meaning transcends words. But, I feel the quote shares a vein with "A Cup of Tea." Zen Flesh Zen Bones. He is looking for the one without preformed decisions.
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