You mean we can't keep giving money away? — jgill

To corporate America, particularly the financial sector? True. We shouldn’t keep giving money away to them.

Also, Friedman’s thinking is long obsolete.

Not talking about a "living wage", only raising wages in general for the purpose of blunting inflation. That's a recipe for leaving older generations on fixed incomes behind. — jgill

So keeping real wages stagnant helps older people. Is this serious?

Wages can keep up with inflation and social programs like Medicaid / Medicare and SS will be just fine. There’s plenty of money to go around, provided we deal with the $800 billion a year gift to defense contractors and the massive tax cuts Trump gave to the corporate sector. To say nothing about trillions in stock buybacks that could easily be given to the workers who generate the astronomical profits we’ve seen the last…40 years.

Conservative canards aside, this can be done —and, importantly, has been done before.

wage-inflation spiral. — jgill

There’s no law of economics that says if you give workers a raise, you must raise your prices to make up for it. I think Wal Mart making 1 or 10 billion less in profits— i.e., absorbing the cost — would be survivable. Considering they make roughly 150 billion. Or, rather than buy back their own stocks, companies can reinvest in workers — like they did for decades prior to the neoliberal assault.

So there is no “wage-inflation spiral.” It’s just more excuses. It’s a pity you buy into this nonsense.

Hunter Biden didn’t pay taxes. As a former president, he should know better. Oh wait.

Donald Trump tried to overturn an election and incited an insurrection, to say nothing about the rapes, tax avoidance, fraud, and homicidal policies (see environmental policies, eg).

Totally the same. In fact, we should be more outraged about… (::checks Fox News::) Hunter Biden. :up:

"Perhaps that's acceptable since ageism is thriving"

ego requiem meam causa. — jgill

No it doesn’t. — Mikie

I rest my case. I’ll repeat: the idea that workers being paid a living wage in the richest country on Earth somehow hurts older Americans is a lie.

Thus, it has nothing to do with being acceptable because of “ageism,” because it’s complete bullshit. Got it? Cool.

Compensating workers more drives up the spiral and leaves retirees behind in the dust. — jgill

No it doesn’t.

The excuses for keeping wages low are getting more and more pathetic. Now it’s supposed to hurt old people… :roll:

Compensate workers more.

True— but you know what really surprised me? Frankie Valli. He was big before Dylan and the Beatles!

The Limey (1999).

Great movie. Especially the ending.

In the sense that metaphysics and ontology are closely related, I can see the point: science has ontological foundations, like everything else. There’s no way around it.

Science was once called natural philosophy, and for good reason. I think it’s exactly that, at its core. You have to assume a naturalism, or even a materialism, to be “doing” science. The very concept of nature, of material, etc., is within the realm of metaphysics.

Maybe this is somewhat close to what you’re getting at? Otherwise I’ve not fully understood.

Most Republicans I know are good people. They go to work, pay their bills on time, are decent to their friends and neighbors, good parents, etc. If any of them had a kid who acted like Trump they would say, "Stop being a sore loser. Stop accusing the game of being rigged every time you lose. Stop fighting with the referees." That's why it amazes me that so many of them support Trump, seemingly unconditionally. Trump is the quintessential sore loser, a spoiled brat... it's only okay when he wins -- when someone else wins, it's because they cheated. We all knew someone like that when we were young, didn't we? No one wants to play with that kid, and every decent parent knows it. So they usually put a stop to that behavior. But with Donald Trump, they support it... — GRWelsh

Exactly.

The reason it doesn’t matter, and they support him no matter what, is because they’ve been conditioned to do so— through the dominance of conservative media. Limbaugh, Fox News, WSJ, etc. Once social media was added to the mix and Trump ran for president, the stage was already set and people already primed.

They’ve gone off the rails now. Now everything is a conspiracy— elections are stolen when we lose, facts are rejected if they go against the narrative we prefer, or if Trump says so, etc. The left has problems and are also conditioned, but not to the degree of reality-denying delusion. They still try to maintain some contact with the world.

Trump took classified documents, either out of spite or looking to make a buck somehow (as always), refused to return them after being asked multiple times, and of course lied every step of the way.

Pretty cut and dry.

Also, there’s a process to declassification. You can’t just will it in your sleep.

I much rather an elected politician than an unelected administrative state, personally. — NOS4A2

Just think of it as a corporation, which you endlessly defend.

Seriously, capitalism functions on the principle "maximize profit." How much worse off can we be if we decide to operate on the principle "maximize ecological harmony"? — Pantagruel

What’s funny is that there’s plenty of profit to be made and plenty of work to be done. We need to electrify everything, which means transforming our electric grid— and retrofitting buildings, producing more heat pumps, solar panels, induction stoves, wind turbines, EVs, etc etc. We can use government subsidy and investment to help the transformation— just as we did with the fossil fuel based economy.

None of this has anything to do with destroying capitalism, really — only a psychotic and vicious variation of capitalism, one that’s dedicated to destroying the normal functioning of human life to serve the interests of Exxon.

I cited my source for the proposition that climate change policies that are not adhered to by major climate change contributors will not be effective. — Hanover

It’s the new line for those who seek to delay what needs to be done: China. The reality is that China has taken bolder action on climate change then the US, which is embarrassing. Up until the IRA, the US had next to nothing noteworthy.

Yes, China and India will have to cut emissions drastically. But we have less control over that than we do our own behavior and policies — and, as a global superpower, our leadership sends a clear message to the rest of the world.

So this reasoning is, putting it as politely as I can, deeply flawed. We can and should do as much as possible to cut emissions as soon as possible and as drastically as possible — regardless of what China or India do. No sense waiting around for other countries to lead the way when we’re supposedly the leader.

If we do achieve that utopian state, let's first get Russia out of Ukraine. That seems more pressing than the smoke in New England. — Hanover

For the record, this is a strawman. No one is claiming the goal is utopia— nor is utopia necessary, any more than dealing with the ozone hole.

The invasion of Ukraine is important, of course. But just because this is true doesn’t mean unprecedented wildfires whose smoke has wafted throughout the northeast should be trivialized. That “smoke in New England” isn’t just a few rich people being inconvenienced, it’s a sign of what’s in store.

This isn't ignorance at all. It's an evil to a competing worldview I don't share. I see capitalism as a force of good and the planet as a morally neutral entity. — Hanover

It really is ignorance. You don’t have to oppose capitalism — as I happen to — to have sensible solutions. A good example is Jeremy Grantham, a capitalist if there ever was one: https://youtu.be/sAHj6mJrzns

Then I’ll owe you $10 to the charity of your choice, or whatever we agreed on. Happily.

If the national Democrats could be more like Minnesotans, perhaps they'd have a better shot.

Minnesota now offers 12 weeks of paid family and medical leave, the opportunity for any resident to buy into Medicaid, free public college tuition for low- and middle-income families, a new child tax credit for those families, free breakfast and lunch for all public school students, driver’s licenses for all residents regardless of their immigration status, and stronger protections for workers seeking to unionize.


Middle-class seniors will no longer have to pay state income taxes on Social Security benefits. A law immediately restoring the voting rights of felons who have completed their prison sentences expanded the franchise to 55,000 more people. Minnesotans serving life behind bars for crimes they committed as minors are now eligible for supervised release 15 years into their sentence. Suspending gun permits for people experiencing a mental health crisis got easier. Recreational marijuana is legal. A new state law protects abortion rights. A “trans refuge” law shields transgender children who travel to Minnesota for medical transitions from legal repercussions in their home states. And Minnesota has set a goal of moving to 100% carbon-free energy by 2040.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/minnesota-miracle-democrats-progressive-bills_n_6484afe4e4b025003eddd498

That is, I'll concede man-made climate change, but still contend maintaining the status quo is the best solution and dealing with the climate change as it comes is the best course. — Hanover

Then I suggest learning more about the topic. This is pure ignorance.

What are the defining features of being a human? — Andrew4Handel

Language.

You devalue others in much the same way he does for much the same underlying reasons(being different). — creativesoul

No I don’t. But coming from a guy claiming those he disagrees with are “bots”, which is the very definition of dehumanizing, I’ll take it for what it is. But I’ll leave it at that.

Let’s plug in what is now claimed to be the case and see how well it holds up:

Talk about no self-awareness.
— Mikie

Mirror, mirror... = There’s a striking similarity between you and Trump supporters.
— creativesoul

Definitely makes sense in this context. :roll:

I always love when people try to save face by resorting to such stupid contortions like this. Oh well.

So funny to watch the con man’s little followers become con men of their own. Listening to their explanations (satirical rationalizations) I’m reminded of Erwin Mainway, aka Dan Akroyd on SNL:



Equally believable.

Personally I don’t care. It’s obvious he’s a criminal, based on evidence accumulated long before he was president. He’s also a sociopath and rabid narcissist, which is why our resident Trumpist will defend him to the bitter end, having similar qualities.

But no, I don’t think he’s done. That’s been said forever. I’ll believe it when I see it. He’ll be done when he’s dead— which, thankfully, is probably not too long, given his age. In the meantime, I wouldn’t get my hopes up. In any sane society, he would have been “done” long ago.

uals that the plan was “highly confidential” and “secret.” TRUMP also said, “as president I could have declassified it,” and, “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.” — creativesoul

What a buffoon.

Trump stole, lied, and intentionally concealed far more sensitive information...knowingly. — creativesoul

Yeah, and it’s obvious to anyone who isn’t a Trump bootlicker.

And to be clear: Hunter Biden can go to jail for all I care. So can Joe. But it’s the selective outrage that’s so funny. Literally trying to overturn an election and outright lying about it being stolen = just things we don’t like. Nothing to see there. But Joe Biden’s kid does cocaine and hires prostitutes? The sky is falling.

It’s so lopsided it’s embarrassing. But it is also very, very funny. One would almost think it’s satire.

Incidentally, I’m not using the laugh emoji for no reason— I’m actually laughing at this. Watching the Trump believers’ outrage is fantastic stuff.

hoarding classified documents, inciting an insurrection, lying repeatedly about the election, trying to pressure officials to “find votes,” etc. — Mikie

Trump said something I didn’t like. — NOS4A2

:rofl:

The criminal case against President Donald J. Trump over his hoarding of classified documents was randomly assigned to Judge Aileen M. Cannon, a court official for the Southern District of Florida said on Saturday.

The chief clerk of the federal court system there, Angela E. Noble, also confirmed that Judge Cannon would continue to oversee the case unless she recused herself.

Guess this is fine. Unless of course the ruling is unfavorable— then it’s a deep state plot.

Hunter’s laptop. :rofl:

So we should be up in arms about this. But hoarding classified documents, inciting an insurrection, lying repeatedly about the election, trying to pressure officials to “find votes,” etc. Somehow all of that can be rationalized away.

Anyway — who cares. Trump’s getting what he deserves. Actions have consequences.

Had American voters only known about Hunters laptop it would have been a fair election. Such a pity that no one knew about it. — praxis

Lol.

Yes. Would have made all the difference. 7 million votes worth.

What exactly would a modern ‘Luddite’ aim to destroy? — I like sushi

Cell phones.

The details in the indictment make it clear that Mr. Trump knew that he was not authorized to keep national security secrets in his possession and that he played a cat-and-mouse game to conceal them from the F.B.I. and other federal officials. At one point he suggested his lawyer take some documents to his hotel room and “pluck” out anything really bad, the indictment says. “Wouldn’t it be better if we just told them we don’t have anything here?” he asked his lawyers. He added, “Well, look, isn’t it better if there are no documents?” Meanwhile, he instructed his lawyers to falsely inform federal investigators that they had cooperated fully.

With these actions, the former president demonstrated once again his contempt for the rule of law, his disregard for America’s national security and his mockery of the oath he took to support and defend the Constitution. — NY Times

How could the Great Man do any wrong? It’s not like he has a history of lying and conning. Doesn’t seem to be something he’d do.

Trump. The cause of, and solution to, the world’s problems.

Random Trump quote, just for fun:

It's like in golf... A lot of people - I don't want this to sound trivial - but a lot of people are switching to these really long putters, very unattractive... it's weird. You see these great players with these really long putters, because they can't sink three-footers anymore. And, I hate it. I am a traditionalist. I have so many fabulous friends who happen to be gay, but I am a traditionalist.

:scream:

Dogma warning: Donald is not Jesus. — unenlightened

Yeah, I’m just not so sure about that.

You know who else was persecuted? Jesus.

Makes you think…

Too bad you missed the boat on asking Chomsky himself!

:rofl:

Ohhh I love it I love it I love it.

Cult leader can do no wrong. Has to be a deep state conspiracy.

Not my fault mom, the teacher is against me.

Orsnge skies in NY. Living with the effects of climate denial and delay these past 30 -50 years. Thank the Koch brothers.

But our belated move to do something about global warming will at best slow, not reverse, the buildup of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, so the climate won’t improve — at best, it will get worse more slowly. So for the foreseeable future we’ll be facing ever bigger climate-related disasters. And this future has already begun. Just look up. — Paul Krugman

Not true. E. g.

https://sites.cardiff.ac.uk/zizekcentre/
https://zizekstudies.org — Baden

Thanks, I’ll check it out.

The only fellow academic of major standing that I know of and respect highly who outright rejects him is Chomsky. — Baden

If that’s true that’s interesting. Between Chomsky’s comments and a number of lectures/debates I’ve watched, and some SEP reading, I’ve formed an opinion— but it’s true that in order to really give someone a chance you should at least read one of their major works. Based on the interest on here alone, I’ll have to do so this year. I’ll be happy to be wrong.

In any case, he’s not a climate denier and seems to reject capitalism, so he’s certainly not doing any harm, in my view.