@NOS4A2, there's been comments on / objections to your "tax is theft" slogan.
Maybe you missed/forgot/misunderstood/ignored them.

We may quantify space/distance with meters and time/duration with seconds, which aren't quite the same. Meters per second isn't just a (unit-less) factor, but what you might get a speeding ticket for.

Running with spatial 4d (so 5 when including time), I suppose we'd have to clarify whether
• we're 4d beings (spatially), or
• we're 3d beings in a larger 4d world,
while just perceiving 3 either way, in our thought experiment.

Implicitly, the geometry of the 4d is similar to our familiar 3d, not like Kaluza-Klein for example. This is what the neat Minecraft thing suggests.

Not the same as "parallel worlds", more like the "extra" spatial dimension (or direction) gives a continuum of 3ds.

There'd be some implications for the physics I think, whereas the mathematics itself can model either fine.

To hike further along, what about an extra temporal dimension...? :)

Seems like plain hostile acts:

Unprecedented GPS jamming attack affects 1600 aircraft over Europe
^{— Jeremy Hsu · New Scientist · Mar 29, 2024}
GPS jamming traced to Russia after flights over Europe suspended
^{— Jeremy Hsu · New Scientist · May 1, 2024}
Innovation: Recent GPS jamming in regions of geopolitical conflict
^{— Dong L Wu · GPS World · May 24, 2024}
Newest NATO Member Sweden Says Russia Disrupting Its Satellite Networks
^{— Hugo Miller, Jonas Ekblom, Greg Sullivan, Alessandro Speciale · Bloomberg · Jun 20, 2024}
Nordic satellites targeted by Russia after Sweden’s NATO accession
^{— Ryan Daws · Telecoms Tech News · Jun 21, 2024}

According to Hugo Miller, the Kremlin is testing the EU and NATO.

What (if any) would an appropriate response be?


As an aside, as long as Hungary has ongoing deals with Rosatom (Paks II) they aren't likely to accept nuclear energy sanctions against Russia. I suppose that is to be expected. Would it be (too) awkward for them to participate in other sanctions?

in the off-chance you might benefit — NOS4A2

:D me me me

In some years there won't be any you to benefit anything. Meanwhile, civilized society is fairly beneficial. (I suppose you could cancel your membership, and go live on your own?)

If US democracy is to be managed by avoidable stupidity, so be it. :meh:

Opinion | A neuroscientist explains why stupidity is an existential threat to America (via msn)
^{— Bobby Azarian · Raw Story · Feb 20, 2023}
Cognitive neuroscientist explains why stupidity is an existential threat to America
^{— Bobby Azarian · Alternet · Feb 21, 2023}

(↑ Lauren Boebert is featured in photos :grin:)

Many people love and depend on the state, and I wouldn't dare take it away from them. — NOS4A2

Seems like your comments elsewhere answer my inquiry better.

Taxes are not only theft, but forced labor. — NOS4A2

I am tired of people taking my money. — NOS4A2

What gives?

Unless... A tax-free state (with government), no law (enforcement), ...?

Does this stuff hold up?

Opinion | The shocking truth behind the GOP's MAGA lie machine (via msn)
^{— Thom Hartmann · Raw Story · Jun 19, 2024}

— the GOP lie that we’re in a recession (we’re in better shape, in most ways, than any time since the 1960s and inflation last month was zero while Ronald Reagan never got it below 4.1% in his entire eight years);
— Republican lies about crime being up (it’s down dramatically since Trump);
— their lies that “Democrats want elective abortion up to the moment of birth” (none have ever said that);
— Trump’s lie that the 2020 election was “stolen” from Trump by “voter fraud”;
— GOP lies that the southern border is “wide open”;
— the Republican lie that Social Security is on the verge of bankruptcy and must be saved by privatization or benefits cuts;
— their vicious lie that queer people are pedophiles targeting America’s schoolchildren; and
— their NRA lie that more and more deadly guns will keep our kids safe.

[...]

Are we talking a "post-truth" type thing? (also 2024Apr18) A BS epidemic? :D

When women are held for days and raped, when you start to rape little boys and men, when you see a series of genital mutilations, when you hear women testify about Russian soldiers equipped with Viagra, it's clearly a military strategy. — Pramila Patten (UN) · Sexual violence in the Russian invasion of Ukraine · Wikipedia

War does things to people. Hopefully The Hague also does something.

Russia says Finland's NATO accession is dangerous historic mistake (— Andrew Osborn, Jake Cordell, Mark Heinrich · Reuters · Apr 4, 2023)

encroachment on our security and on Russia's national interests — Peskov

Finland joins NATO in historic shift, Russia threatens 'counter-measures' (— Anne Kauranen, Andrew Gray, Tom Little, Essi Lehto, Kate Abnett, Jan Strupczewski, Sabine Siebold, Angus MacSwan, Mark Heinrich, Patricia Zengerle, Nick Macfie, Richard Chang, Rosalba O'Brien · Reuters · Apr 4, 2023)

Finland: Almost all the ground forces in Russia's immediate area are now in Ukraine (— Mika Mäkeläinen, Eva Sarlin, Päivi Koskinen · Yle · Jun 19, 2024)

Security, though?

, well, and/or state, or perhaps to what extent.

Your comments tend to suggest you're into

no state/government to speak of — jorndoe

, you're not going for no state/government to speak of?

you could/would instantly find yourself inside of a solid object of some sort and instantly die? — Mp202020

No, not quite. You'd still bump into things. But I suppose it depends on how the fundamental forces would work in 4 spatial dimensions.

@NOS4A2, are you genuinely looking to (conflict with the aim of) dissolving government/state (North America presumably)? If so, then what are you envisioning here?

Not quite comparable, but might otherwise be informative:

On Jun 5, a critical piece of water supply infrastructure broke in the Canadian city of Calgary (pop 1.3m).
On Jun 15, a local emergency was declared.
So far, it seems like residents are fairly good at cutting down water usage, following statements by city officials, though moving into warmer days and fixing the problems taking time.

As per Natalka (Jun 15, 2024), Kremlin-associated bots sent out 120,000 posts with fake quotes.

Also reported by Agentstvo (Jun 15, 2024).

Hard to tell what the impact is, but there's more where that came from.

, well, that's up for debate.

If you're asking my own opinion, then I tend to start out simpler. The Kremlin rolling in and grabbing what they see fit isn't acceptable. EOS. Extending and imposing the regress of Putin's Russia onto another country makes it worse, both for Ukraine and others.

But it's up to the Ukrainians. Ukraine isn't a kindergarten.

, apparently so; well, the Ukrainians agreed to remove whatever about Crimea from the deal, i.e. no mention thereof.
Seemed like they focussed more on peace guarantees (future).
I think they also differentiate Donbas becoming part of Russia and an entirely independent Donbas.

Can't decide between a tasty delicious portable nuclear bomb with a dead man's switch, and a large bottle of Jack Daniel's No 7 (plus ice cubes). :D

The New York Times got hold of some documents, did some interviews ...

Ukraine-Russia Peace Is as Elusive as Ever. But in 2022 They Were Talking.
^{— Anton Troianovski, Adam Entous, Michael Schwirtz, Andrew E Kramer, Julian E Barnes, Maria Varenikova, Gray Beltran, Rumsey Taylor · New York Times · Jun 15, 2024}
The sticking points that kept Russia and Ukraine apart
^{— Anton Troianovski, Michael Schwirtz · New York Times via Japan Times · Jun 16, 2024}

NYT publishes alleged draft of failed Russia-Ukraine peace deal (note, this is Russian state media)
^{— RT · Jun 15, 2024}
From security guarantees to territorial control, these differences led to failure of Ukraine-Russia peace talks
^{— Firstpost · Jun 16, 2024}

Someone summarized ...

• Russia withdrew previous objections to Ukraine's full membership of EU
• Ukraine proposed never to join NATO
• Russia wanted Ukraine to make Russian an official language
• Russia wanted Ukraine and all other signatories of treaties to lift 2014+ sanctions and publicly call on others to follow suit
• Ukraine was to give up Donbas and recognize Crimea as part of Russia
• Ukraine did not recognize Russian sovereignty over occupied territory (independence being a separate topic)
• Russia's ceasefire proposal stated that Ukraine withdraw all troops
• Ukraine wanted allies to be bound by a treaty to intervene if attacked again
• For Ukrainians, binding security guarantees were the basis of a potential peace agreement signed by several countries
• The Kremlin required Russia to be among guarantor states, all of who must approve response in case of attack on Ukraine
• Ukraine to be permanently neutral (with limited militarization)

More recently ...

Ukraine Peace Summit: Putin demands more Ukrainian land to end war; Kyiv rejects 'ultimatum'
^{— WION · Jun 15, 2024 · 5m:26s}

Ukraine conference joint communiqué: full text
^{— Thomas Escritt · Reuters · Jun 15, 2024}
80 Countries Back Ukraine's 'Territorial Integrity' At Swiss Peace Summit
^{— RFE/RL · Jun 16, 2024}
Ukraine summit strives for consensus, way forward uncertain
^{— Dave Graham, Sabine Siebold, Steve Holland, Thomas Escritt, Dan Peleschuk, Alvise Armellini, Matthias Williams, Mark Potter, Hugh Lawson · Reuters · Jun 16, 2024}
Swiss summit backs Ukraine’s ‘territorial integrity’, calls for peace talks with Russia
^{— France 24 · Jun 16, 2024 · 6m:59s}

Not really much new.

Can be generalized some while remaining relevant:

I believe that a state favouring one religion above others is inherently discriminatory and should progress into an actual democracy instead of the (Apartheid) ________ state it is now. The idea of a ("jewish") ________ state that favours (Jews as Jews) ________ is obviously wrong to anyone with a modicum of knowledge about human and civil rights. — Benkei

There are some in the region (including an old foe of theirs). :/


Albanese is apparently a controversial figure. According to UN Watch ...

Exposed: Francesca Albanese’s Global Influence Network Targeting Israel (— UN Watch · Jun 11, 2024)

(Did you mean "to Russia by" instead of "to Ukraine by"?)

strives to maximize the damage to Ukraine by drip feeding weapons (... just enough to prop it up at an incredible high cost to Ukraine) — boethius

Your "drip feed" theory presumes cohesive organized "feeders" with that (hidden) agenda.
Haven't really heard anyone pushing/discussing that (supposed) agenda, more like the usual debates quarrels dis/agreements bureaucracy.

More of the alternate world thing ...

Matviyenko interviewed by Skabeyeva posted by Natalka on Jun 8, 2024 and Gerashchenko on Jun 10, 2024:

Well, we didn't do anything bad to anyone. We didn't attack anyone. — Valentina Matviyenko · Jun 2024

I suppose they could head south and take a look.

Edel writes:

Why Russia Is Happy at War
^{— Anastasia Edel · The Atlantic · Jun 9, 2024}

Incidentally reminded me of some earlier comments, e.g.:

The fact is that Russia simply isn't a normal country that would try to have good relations with it's neighbors. It seeks the role it had when it was an empire/Superpower, makes huge gambles and takes extreme risks. It's extremely reckless. There simply are no benefits in trying to appease Putin. — ssu

There should be another narrative than the imperialist one when it comes to what Russia is. This narrative creates the reality were Russia sees necessary to intervene and dominate it's near abroad. First and foremost, the collapse of the Soviet Union, is seen as a mistake. An unfortunate accident. Russia is seen to be an multi-ethnic Empire and therefore it should obviously control what has been part of the Empire. And this makes everybody so nervous about Russia. It's not acting as a normal country. Yet the imperialist narrative dominates official Russia. It is fomented with the huge conspiracy that the West is against Russia, hence to defend itself, it has to attack. — ssu

For Russia to become a normal country and shed it's bellicose aggressive behaviour a humiliating defeat could do it. The Soviet Union came so splendidly and peacefully apart that people like Vladimir Putin understood it as a mistake, something you can and have to fix. — ssu

But I'm hopeful that Russia can shed it's fascist tendencies and perhaps become a normal democracy someday. But I acknowledge it will be difficult. Yet Spain and Portugal aren't anymore fascist. — ssu

Doing nothing is still a decision in the scenario.
Besides, it's easy enough to come up with a scenario where doing nothing would result in more deaths than, say, two other options.
Say, pulling lever left results in x deaths, pulling lever right results in y deaths, doing nothing results in x+y deaths.
Inaction is just one aspect of the conundrum, it's not so much about rejecting personal responsibility, more about pitching ethics against psychology, I think, or something, where there may not be a definitive answer.
Another (minor) aspect could be: swift decision-making.
Given no time to think it over, what would be the most likely decision?

Something about the Jan 6 2021 attack I'm wondering about.
What could possibly happen after the storming of the buildings?
It wasn't a swift hit-and-run type attack.

Would the mob occupy them?
I don't think that could block Congress from moving ahead later, or stop much of anything really.

Hold hostages?
From memory, most of those who worked there left or got out before the attackers took over, e.g. Pence was (predictably) ushered away by the Secret Service; there wasn't anyone stopping people from leaving (or attacking them) that I recall.

Maybe they expected that a fair portion of the US population would join in...?
Including in law enforcement and military?
That's the only way they could succeed as far as I can tell, however remote that seems.

I suppose the attack could just give an impression of a weaker, fragile state of the US government, which might be enough for some.

Attacking those buildings doesn't really come through as much of a coup d'état attempt by itself, but I might definitely be missing something.
More like a party gone haywire, though I'm sure there were some serious extremists and dedicated instigators in the mob; what about domestic terrorists or Iranian agents?
Might be more interesting to back-track what participants/organizers did, whether they got together beforehand, where (or from who) their ideas originated or otherwise were reinforced, what their motivations were, ...
I'm thinking it wasn't just the Clown that put ideas in their heads, but I'm speculating.
Further motive (who might benefit in some way), means, opportunity (nudging rioters — and shamans), ...

Someone's

extremely — boethius

full of ‹redacted›. You've been given enough evidence already, yet keep going all "Putin's Russia is :up:" whether implicitly or explicitly. :down: At least you're right that the two situations aren't quite the same.

More samples of the ☢ rattling, in concert, corroborated by whatever sources, seemingly suggesting the circle is afraid of something:

Russian Ministry (May 6, 2024) threatens the UK
Putin (May 29, 2024) threatens "the West"
Ryabkov (Jun 3, 2024) threatens the US
Sivkov (Jun 3, 2024) threatens Poland
Putin (Jun 5, 2024) threatens Germany
Lavrov (Jun 5, 2024) threatens French
Putin (Jun 5, 2024) threatens "the West"
The Kremlin (Jun 5, 2024) threatens (provokes) the US
Putin (Jun 5, 2024) threatens "the West"
Gurulyov (Jun 5, 2024) threatens the Netherlands
Putin (Jun 6, 2024) threatens the UK

I guess the response has always been: leave Ukraine be.

Toth and Sweet opines:

Russian spies, lies and sabotage are coming to America
^{— Mark Toth, Jonathan Sweet · The Hill · Jun 8, 2024}

Well, the article aligns with:

Russia’s Threat Puts Security at Forefront of European Elections (4m:35s interview)
^{— Konrad Krasuski, Piotr Skolimowski, Natalia Ojewska · Bloomberg · Jun 4, 2024}

theiyr're
they're their there

that must of been quite something

I'm better then you

youre
you're your

whe're
we're were where

Yet if they do have an ancestral homeland it is in Africa. — BitconnectCarlos

Go a bit further back and we're (likely) all Africans.

A path to peace talks is to sideline the extremists and fanatics on whatever side, them'gotta go, and whatever crimes dealt with.
Doesn't take a whole lot of zealots to sideline more accommodating moderates.
Why the heck would Muslims and Jews be attacked on other continents over this anyway?
"Righteous" attackers everywhere have a case (that can be found here in the thread), right?

When people start listening to clowns, then we get a circus.

Will refrain from linking to Antisocial Bullshit (or Patriots·Win or Gateway Pundit) further here...

Trump supporters call for riots and violent retribution after verdict
^{— Joseph Tanfani, Ned Parker, Peter Eisler · Reuters · May 31, 2024}
22 Experts Predict What the Trump Conviction Will Mean for 2024 and Beyond
^{— various · POLITICO · May 31, 2024}
MAGA faithful call for riots and lynchings after Trump’s guilty verdict
^{— Io Dodds · The Independent · Jun 1, 2024}
US 'Civil War' Predicted on Russian State TV
^{— Mandy Taheri · Newsweek · Jun 2, 2024}
Trump alludes to violence by supporters if he goes to jail - but says he’s fine with house arrest
^{— Andrew Feinberg · The Independent · Jun 3, 2024}

Tracing backward, who/what stands to benefit from the division unrest ... parts?

, complementing your speculation, let me try some aspects of what's (been) going on (e.g. evidence in posts)

• Russian losses in world war 2 aren't the first thing you hear about around the world (cf the Holocaust)
• Russia didn't "win" the cold war (like "the West")
• Russia hasn't comparatively seen marked development (cf Japan)
• Russia/Moscow lost some control/influence internationally
• Russia isn't really a top-tier economy on the world stage (like the US)
• Russian Rubles aren't common in the international market/trade (like US$s, which came to Moscow)
• Russian isn't commonly spoken internationally (like English, which instead invaded Moscow)
• Russia hasn't been sort of inconspicuously "growing" (e.g. Ukraine and others going West instead)
• Russia isn't really a top influence(r) and power for all to (respectfully) listen or turn to

But

• Russia is the largest country in the world (and powerful)
• Russia can (does) produce impressive amounts of artillery
• Russia does have lots of educated/smart people
• Russia does have lots of resources, including some scientific/technological capacity
• Russia does have the largest nuclear weapons arsenal around

Frustrating for the present old-school autocratic Kremlin. Well, they can do something about that, one indignant way or another. Enemies identified, plans in motion. This stuff has (in part) set the stage for their (current) goings-and-doings.

^{By the way
• the Kremlin (circle) has a background in spycraft and up-scale manipulation
• the Kremlin has anxiety about Russia breaking up into different independent nations
• the Kremlin has seized impressive domestic control}

Russia Moves to Expropriate Homes in Occupied Regions
^{— Ann-Dorit Boy · DER SPIEGEL · May 7, 2024}

Centrally organized land grab, a contemporary Kremlin version of lebensraum, neo-imperialism.
There's been some further reports of these efforts.
(I suppose we can speculate that refugees may not have a home to return to, in the future, unless they buy it back from Moscow (and obtain Russian passports).)
Whatever comes out of the Kremlin, that's part of what they're doing.

The barber paradox is also related to the Epimenides paradox ("damn Cretins") and the liar paradox.

"You shall be careful with self-reference."

A function cannot be its own argument, because the functional sign already contains the prototype of its own argument and it cannot contain itself.

If, for example, we suppose that the function F(fx) could be its own argument, then there would be a proposition “F(F(fx))”, and in this the outer function F and the inner function F must have different meanings; for the inner has the form ϕ(fx), the outer the form ψ(ϕ(fx)). Common to both functions is only the letter “F”, which by itself signifies nothing.

This is at once clear, if instead of “F(F(u))” we write “(∃ϕ) : F(ϕu) . ϕu = Fu”.

Herewith Russell’s paradox vanishes. — Wittgenstein

I'm guessing these sorts of things show up elsewhere as well.

Some politainment:

'MAGA communism' derided as 'deranged fringe movement' – but it's winning converts
^{— Travis Gettys · Raw Story · May 24, 2024}

It's almost like those guys make an effort to choose so that you can rely on choosing differently. :D
I guess their livelihoods are somewhat limited, comedic entertainment, run for office, ...

, wait, that's ^(5,7)(9) propaganda in your book? No wonder you see propaganda and conspiracies everywhere. :grin: Especially against Putin. :chin:

Try this (for a change): Entertain a thought experiment or hypothetical to think about what changes and what doesn't in the scenario. (Hence putting it out there as a question (that you instead call propaganda).) Common practice.

FYI, here's a piece of lightweight propaganda, maybe you can tell the difference:
US to blame for Iranian president’s death – Belarus (— RT · May 24, 2024)

Figaro shaved Bartolo, but not Rosina though she didn't shave herself, at least I don't think she did, but what do I know — no matter, in a universe where Figaro is hairless, no such Figaro-shaving is applicable in the first place. Unless shaving a fake beard counts.

British barbers regularly cut their clients throats instead and dispose of their bodies in meat pies, to avoid this sort of difficulty. — unenlightened

Canadians append a verbal "Sorry". :D

So, anyway, does the King of France shave himself or not? More importantly, have you stopped shaving your palms yet, well, have you?

Where are you even getting this from, following your own link: — boethius

It was an attempt to converge acceptability, not a recitation of an old proposal, but to revise bits, hypothesize, and derive whatever therefrom. :D

You can post as much propaganda as you want — boethius

Huh? Where do you see that? As mentioned, it was an attempt to revise an old proposal slightly towards more acceptability, and take it (onwards) from there. (Would you like me to reformulate, maybe in Klingon...?)

Alert: Trump's GOP busted for embracing Putin's 'dictator plot': Comedian Klepper x Melber
^{— Jordan Klepper, Ari Melber, Molly Jong-Fast · MSNBC · May 22, 2024 · 6m:57s}

People here in Washington, DC are just ignoring that, making people believe like Ukraine can win, Ukraine can't, Putin won't lose, Putin will not lose, he's not going to lose. — Ron Johnson

MAGA'ers and @boethius echoing the Kremlin circle — "We're invincible" — in words or spirit.
Of course the invaders can be sent home (reportedly a large number already has + o / w). Not via those fatalists though.
By the way, the Kremlin has kicked off another round of their nuclear rattling (rerunning exercises, threatening the UK, France, whoever), I wonder what they're afraid of.

The Barber of Seville shaves all the men of Seville apart from himself. — Nemo2124

Should have been:
The Barber of Seville shaves those who don't shave themselves.
Who shaves the Barber then?

Russia shuts down Trump's brag that Putin will free jailed reporter if ex-president wins (— Matthew Chapman · Raw Story · May 23, 2024)

Russia denies Trump’s claim he can free US journalist if he wins election (— The Guardian · May 23, 2024)

The Clown qualifies as a bullshitter (again).

Gross

Aleksander Sładkow reports from the trenches (May 22, 2024 · 2m:8s)