You’re on a philosophy forum and don’t know that all metaphysical discussions are in the realm of our imaginations? — Joe Mello

No there is also the realm of sense experience and the realm of concepts (among other things). You don't know the basics son. God is beyond your metaphysical understanding. Your attempt at deriving a metaphysical principal is rooted in a dualistic understanding of reality. Come back when you get past the mirage kiddo.

God is the greatest being we can imagine. — Joe Mello

Yep you are firmly rooted in the realm of imagination. If you were not holding onto your idea of God it would drift away with the wind. God is an idea that you sustain and keep alive. Let it go and find what is unchanging.

That matter has mass and light doesn't is a "qualitative" difference. — Joe Mello

So for you 'greater' is something in subjective experience? Mass is quantitatively measured.

I apologize for being "vague" about lesser and greater things. But I was so because I took for granted that people on a philosophy forum had learned and incorporated into his or her thinking this basic tenet of philosophy. — Joe Mello

Defining terms is one of the first things that should happen in philosophical discourse. You're trying to claim that there is a generally accepted definition of 'greater' used amongst philosophers. That is obviously false.

Ignorance of our past is just that -- ignorance. — Joe Mello

Yeah we are ignorant of whatever meaning you have in your mind. Aka not mind readers.

Light and matter both emit electromagnetic waves. But matter has the extra element of mass. So, we can also proclaim with absolute certitude that matter is greater than light. — Joe Mello

Isn't mass quantitative?

emancipate, to ask a question that has already been answered is kinda dumb.

Did you not read my long post about a “Baptism of Tears”?

If you’re truly interested in the quality of my experiences of God, starting there would be a better place than spurting out questions off the top of your head. — Joe Mello

The only thing you have done so far in this thread is reply with petty remarks and a bad attitude. This is not philosophy and neither does it make anyone want to engage with you seriously. Do not assume that I (and others here) have not spent many years thinking about such topics; and by that I wish to suggest to you that the questions asked were not "off the top of my head". You are not the first to think deeply, so get off your high horse old man.

Joe! Where is your head at? I looked at your "elegant principle", and realized instantaneously that I have no idea what you mean by "greater". One could spend an eternity pondering 'what does Joe mean by greater', approaching an infinity of possibilities. I chose a more appropriate action, ask Joe what he means by "greater". Your replies indicate Joe does not know what he means by "greater", and he reacts to my questioning in a defensive way, trying to make me feel like the uneducated one. — Metaphysician Undercover

There were multiple posters in the thread who wanted clarification on what exactly Joe means by 'greater'. It is apparently something so vague and vacuous as to be meaningless.

don't think this is true. I think lots of people experience God. That doesn't mean I agree with Joe Mello on the things he's written. — T Clark

I think that all God-related experiences are fingers pointing at the moon. Not the moon itself. Just enough to get a fragrance of the thing.

I told you that I have spent decades experiencing God, and you replied that “no one experiences God”. — Joe Mello

So what were your God experiences then? Your thoughts? Sensations? Émotions?

emancipate, you didn’t just call me a liar or delusional for claiming to have received from God a direct revelation, you called everyone throughout the history of humanity with such claims, and they’re myriad, liars or delusional — Joe Mello

How are you 70 years old and as touchy as an angst ridden teenager? I called you neither a liar, nor delusional. And I am not an atheist. Completely wrong on all accounts.

I know you all have put God in a safe little box. But you should understand that you’re in that box, too. — Joe Mello

God is a concept for you also. No-one experiences God because God is necessarily beyond finite representation. You're in a box, just like the rest of us.

emancipate, I’ve given many.

So, again — Life is greater than the elements, and thought is greater than life, and love is greater than thought, and God is greater than us. — Joe Mello

Life, love, god.

Just a bunch of extremely vague concepts. Also you claimed science has confirmed your opening statement, yet science deals exclusively with the quantitative and doesn't touch these vague concepts.

Hello, jgill.

Your example is greater in quantity not in quality.

Big difference. — Joe Mello

Please give a definition of 'greater' that isn't quantitative. That will perhaps serve as a starting point to understanding the statement in your opening post:

No combination of lesser things can create a greater thing without something greater than the greater thing added to the lesser things. — Joe Mello

Therefore, I need thoughts to be sure about my own existence and circumstances. — javi2541997

Nope. Thoughts come into awareness and they drift away. So does all phenomena. The only thing you need to be sure about your existence is awareness.

Ah yes the Irish Bible.

However the idea of reincarnation certainly wasn't up for debate at all. — TiredThinker

Most Christians today are not aware that the early founders of Christianity were Platonists and there is evidence reincarnation was taught for the first few centuries.

...then what else do you have to add to this conversation other than telling us of the obvious complications that accompany various surgical procedures? — Hanover

Complications? Yeah I'd say it's pretty damn complicated to do the impossible.

Tom Storm expressed support towards transgender people, and got criticized with a dumb argument that being transgender equals to horrible things. That's a gross generalization, and it's a clear example of inappropriate transphobia. — pfirefry

Apparently your reading comprehension is lacking. So desperate to virtue signal..

Point out one example of transphobia in this thread.

It took you 3 mins to come to a conclusion that affirms your biases. Nope I will not provide you with more studies that you will not read.

Are you saying that you don't have a source? If not then why do you believe that there is a high rate of regret? If your opinion is based on some evidence that show me the evidence — Michael

Vandenbussche, Elie (2021) - "Detransition-Related Needs and Support: A Cross-Sectional Online Survey"

Singh, Devita Bradley, Susan and Zucker, Kenneth, (2021) - "A Follow-Up Study of Boys With Gender Identity Disorder"

Cantor, James (2016) - "Do Trans Kids Stay Trans When They Grow Up?"

Clarke, Anna Churcher (2019) - "‘Taking the Lid Off the Box’: The Value of Extended Clinical Assessment for Adolescents Presenting with Gender Identity Difficulties"

Davenport, Charles W (1986) - "A Follow-Up Study of 10 Feminine Boys"

Delay, Dawn; Martin, Carol Lynn; Cook, Rachel E; Hanish, Laura D (2018) - “The Influence of Peers During Adolescence: Does Homophobic Name Calling by Peers Change Gender Identity?”

Dhejne, Cecilia; Lichtenstein, Paul; Boman, Marcus; Johansson, Anna LV; Långström, Niklas; Landén, Mikael (2011) - "Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden"

Drummond, KD; Bradley, SJ; Peterson-Badali, M; Zucker, KJ (2008) - "A Follow-Up Study of Girls with Gender Identity Disorder"

Green, R (1987) - "The 'Sissy-Boy Syndrome' and the Development of Homosexuality"

Kosky, RJ (1987) - "Gender-disordered Children: Does Inpatient Treatment Help?"

Lebovitz, PS (1972) - "Feminine Behavior in Boys: Aspects of Its Outcome."

Marchiano, Lisa (2017) - "Outbreak: On Transgender Teens and Psychic Epidemics"

Money, J; Russo, AJ (1979) - "Homosexual Outcome of Discordant Gender Identity/Role: Longitudinal Follow-Up."

Singh, Devita (2012) - "A Follow-Up Study of Boys with Gender Identity Disorder"

Steensma, Thomas D; McGuire, Jenifer K; Kreukels, Baudewijntje PC; Beekman, Anneke J; Cohen-Kettenis, Peggy Tine (2013) - "Factors Associated with Desistence and Persistence of Childhood Gender Dysphoria: A Quantitative Follow-Up Study"

Wallien, Madeleine SC; Cohen-Kettenis, Peggy Tine (2008) - "Psychosexual Outcome of Gender-Dysphoric Children"

Zuger, B (1978) - "Effeminate Behavior Present in Boys from Childhood: Ten Additional Years of Follow-Up"

Zuger, B (1984) - "Early Effeminate Behavior in Boys: Outcome and Significance for Homosexuality"

Studies about trans regret from unbiased sources get blocked due to fears about political correctness. For example

A therapist says he is "astonished" by a university's decision to stop him studying people who decide to reverse gender reassignment operations.

James Caspian wanted to write a thesis on "detransition" as part of his master's degree in counselling and psychotherapy at Bath Spa University.

He said it was rejected by the university's ethics committee because it could be "politically incorrect".

Mr Caspian, a counsellor who specialises in therapy for transgender people, told Radio 4: "I was astonished at that decision.

"I think that a university exists to encourage discussion, research - dissent even, challenging perhaps ideas that are out of date or not particularly useful."

He says he wanted to study people who had swapped gender and then changed their minds after coming across evidence of a growing number of people who regretted having the surgery and finding no research had been done into the subject.

Better 'not to offend

He amended his proposal - to include people who had transitioned to men and reverted to living as women but without reversing their surgery - and resubmitted it, but it was rejected by the ethics committee.

"The fundamental reason given was that it might cause criticism of the research on social media and criticism of the research would be criticism of the university and they also added it was better not to offend people," he said.

According to the Times, it was rejected because "engaging in a potentially politically incorrect piece of research carries a risk to the university".

American transgender activist Riki Wilchins said studies on transgender people could have a "political undercurrent" and potentially have a negative effect on the way they are treated.

"People have been launching studies that undercut transgender people's access to surgery for decades now," she told Radio 4.

But Mr Caspian said older studies were out of date and the research was necessary "to help people".

He added: "The whole field has completely changed over the last few years.

"The idea that we might use the information from the research I was going to do in a way that wouldn't help people is completely wrong."

He is considering a legal challenge but is waiting for the university to conclude an internal investigation.

This researcher ultimately submitted and lost a legal challenge. Go free speech!

The survey in 2015 was conducted by national center for transgender equality. I would present you a non-bias source but unfortunately the entire western media is pumping out pro trans propaganda

A survey conducted by by a trans rights activist organisation is sure not to have a pro trans agenda. Right? Surely not a conflict of interest. This is propaganda. Just like all western mainstream media has a pro trans agenda.

'Saved' has nothing to do with favourable outcome in a particular circumstance. Even most Christians don't mean it that way.

All spiritual paths have the same kernel of truth. Tat tvam asi. Religions are imperfect vehicles to realise this and most people don't, because the religious tend to be exclusivist and ritualistic. However even in Christianity you can find the less trodden path and often ignored ones, like Maister Eckhart: "The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love." It's the Atman knowing Brahman in the Hindu tradition. Even Buddhists practice bhakti, devotion to God, as do all other religions.

You support thousands of young women including teenage girls having healthy breasts removed, the indoctrination of children, undermining women's rights, the existence of 100 genders and so on.

So there is nothing noble about your position — Andrew4Handel

:100:

There are many, many cases of post-operation regret but for some reason that part never gets highlighted. (That would perhaps put a stop to the delusion that science can change sex organs). The operations are simply body mutilations. This is not something praiseworthy and neither is encouraging children to take puberty blockers.

How did the baby navigate the penile canal? — Hanover

By exploding the penis to smithereens. Don't worry though, it wasn't a real penis and they sewed another one back on afterwards.

Pi is an exact number because it has one value: it is the length of a circle's circumference divided by its diamter. — Cuthbert

Pi defined this way will never give a consistent concrete value. It is only exact in an ideal sense.

I don't have any objection to people masquerading, as long as they--and society--are clear and honest about what they are doing. — Bitter Crank

:100: agree. Demanding that the rest of society play along with the charade is the problem. Better refer to random fragile being as xer person who menstruates on Tuesdays and chestfeeds on Fridays, otherwise they will cry and shit their pants. Madness. Surgeons are mutilating bodies for coins. Doesn't that go against the hyppocratic oath? Wth is going on?

It's literally scientifically impossible to change sex. Sewing a sausage dick on isn't going to change that. Such a thing is delusional and we should treat it as such.

I'm probably going to get banned for stating this fact.

Messiah means anointed one. One who is a prophet of God and who proclaims the truth of God to a chosen people, in a particular place at a particular time. In this way Messiahs have appeared throughout history. Messiah is interchangeable with enlightened being. Buddha, Maharishi, Jesus, Maister Eckhart, Lao Tzu.. all realised and pointed towards the same ineffable source. Every religion has its non-dual insight at its core.

Are any numbers exact? What is meant by 'exact'?

Look into advaita vedanta.

"What Constitutes A Philosopher?"

Why does this question matter? Yet another categorization attempt that is so typical of philosopher. Is that what philosophy is? The practice of demarcation? Setting boundaries? The intellect can only delineate and carve up, anatomise and atomise. Voilà, a description of typical western philosophers. Eastern philosophers would be described in another manner.

P.s. Me? I too will sometimes blow a runny nose but I don’t make much of it — javra

It's a demon exiting your body! Or perhaps not, though it is a curious historical quirk, originating from superstitious beliefs, that we utter "bless you" when someone sneezes. So as protect the devil from taking the sneezers soul, or so was believed during plague times. In french it's "À vos souhaits". Germans have "gesundheit". Further back, in antiquity, the phrase was "Que Jupiter te conserve!"("may Jupiter keep you!"), or simply "salve" ("health").

If one believed in magic, one might say these phrases are magical incantations. But I don't make much of it either.

Esoteric thinking?

Dance & Music!

Rhythm & Ratio!

Mathematical universe. Pythagoreanism? — Agent Smith

:meh:

...Does this forum have an ignore feature?

That's also extremely dishonest to use the quote function to attribute to someone something they never said- reported, btw — Seppo

You are right, I apologize.

Il n'est pas un saint, lui.

That is correct. Contrary to popular belief, we'll all make it to paradise, even me! — Olivier5

Yep but not without a period of punishment. This is the universalist position and there is even Biblical evidence for this. It's pretty uncommon among Christians but I have met a few people who believe this.

That's an accurate assessment and probably well covered by the likes of Hitchens and Dawkins. — Tom Storm

Hitchens and Dawkins covered this but they presented it as though a murderer could simply repent on their deathbed and get instantly into heaven. That's a strawman of Christianity that conveniently leaves out the idea of purgatory.

words that denote very different concepts — Seppo

Nothing is the absence of delineating qualities. Infinity is the absence of limiting qualities. Even on a semantic level they are not 'very different concepts'.

meditation has secretly revealed — Seppo

It's no secret and I am hardly the first person to claim something like this. The mind is stuck in the relativistic realm of concepts. That's why it cannot make sense of certain dualisms. Meditation is a different way to experience, unmediated by mind. Mock away though, I can tell you have never looked seriously into this.

And the only way "infinity and nothing are one and the same" is if you're re-defining one or both terms. Given their usual meanings in English, obviously they're very different concepts — Seppo

Yes well experience beats dictionary definition and through sustained practice of meditation one can begin to experience how these concepts dissolve into unity (as all concepts do).

Infinity and nothing are one and the same. The 2 poll options are not mutually exclusive.