God didn't keep his words to Adam and Eve — Truth Seeker
If Satan is an essential part of human life, is God complicit with him. Is it possible that God was complicit in the initial rebellion? — Ludwig V
In the end, it doesn't matter, since when we take over Canada, all of Vancouver will be ours, and maybe Minnesota and Manitoba will be merged. We'll lose our little chimney up there. — BC
Hands off Greenland. And Canada, too. — BC
the point is that humans and chimps are closely related, and notions of right and wrong first evolved in an ancestor we shared.
We are not closely related to insects, so whatever "similarities" we find between us and them is an example of convergent evolution and outside of this discussion — Questioner
I'm not sure Ecurb understands the abstract approach I'm bringing to the discussion — Philosophim
No. The morality came first. We evolved the neurological capacities for it. Our evolution as a social species refined it. Toss in the capacity to invent supernatural beings, and the evolution of a theory of mind, and we see the rise of things like religious rituals, myths, taboos, and burial practices — Questioner
. Based on the spelling of "behaviour", we cannot fully trust this dictionary, but "principles" are distinct from actions. A mother may nurse her children without considering the "principles" concerning this behavior. Indeed, "principles" are clearly based on language and are clearly cultural, not exclusively "neurological".principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behaviour:
You did not answer my questions -
If brain capacities are not the result of our evolution, what is your alternative explanation?
How do you separate a species from their structure and function? — Questioner
First, if it was true, that doesn't prove that the disagreement is rational or right. Educated people as a group have believed or asserted plenty of beliefs that later were found not to be founded on rational thought, but cultural group think. — Philosophim
No, its reasonable to use definitions for clarity of communication. Its manipulative, coercive, and a means to influence to gain power over people's thinking when you shape words for 'kindness', politeness, and political reasons. — Philosophim
“Not very good, I am afraid. But now really, do not you think Udolpho the nicest book in the world?”
“The nicest — by which I suppose you mean the neatest. That must depend upon the binding.”
“Henry,” said Miss Tilney, “you are very impertinent. Miss Morland, he is treating you exactly as he does his sister. He is forever finding fault with me, for some incorrectness of language, and now he is taking the same liberty with you. The word ‘nicest,’ as you used it, did not suit him; and you had better change it as soon as you can, or we shall be overpowered with Johnson and Blair all the rest of the way.”
“I am sure,” cried Catherine, “I did not mean to say anything wrong; but it is a nice book, and why should not I call it so?”
“Very true,” said Henry, “and this is a very nice day, and we are taking a very nice walk, and you are two very nice young ladies. Oh! It is a very nice word indeed! It does for everything. Originally perhaps it was applied only to express neatness, propriety, delicacy, or refinement — people were nice in their dress, in their sentiments, or their choice. But now every commendation on every subject is comprised in that one word.”
“While, in fact,” cried his sister, “it ought only to be applied to you, without any commendation at all. You are more nice than wise.
No, that's not me, nor a great number of other critical-thinkers — Questioner
Yeah, those in a cult don't have the clearest vision. — Questioner
God, no. An appeal to the best in us is not equivalent to the worst in us. — Questioner
I'm not saying it 'should' be any of them. I'm noting it 'is'. That's where you misunderstand the OP. This not about what man or woman should mean by default, its about what they do mean by default. — Philosophim
Correct, and I offered you another. Me. — Philosophim
There should be no debate that woman can refer to adult human female, and woman can refer to a gender role — Philosophim
If a person legally changes their name, then you should call them their new legal name. — Philosophim
My note is that unmodified, when the term 'woman' is used, its default is a sex reference, not a role. — Philosophim
You don't believe in the power of propaganda? — Questioner
And linguistics and cognitive science back this up: it's called prototype theory. People have prototypical associations with words. A starling is closer to the prototypical bird than a penguin. Crucially though, both are birds. The tendency towards prototypical association doesn't justify the exclusion of other members of the category. — Jamal
I think you missed my point that groups of people can be manipulated — Questioner
No, I am the authority of good manners. And as I am addressing you with these wishes, you should comply. Don't you want to make a smooth social situation? — Philosophim
Now - as to the "gassing of the Jews" during WW2 - that is a big question - At the pinnacle of this movement was one man - Hitler - who was a deviant from the norm - — Questioner
Seems Kees "went missing" 1955 - never to be seen again. — Questioner
The point is that all morality comes from our evolution. — Questioner
Because a name is a legally binding identifier for the individual. Why do you think it wouldn't matter? — Philosophim
Who is the authority of these 'Good manners'? — Philosophim
"Their" indicates ownership and can also be singular or plural. — Philosophim
I do not believe in Adam and Eve as historical figures.
All human behavior is "natural" — Questioner
The evolution of moral codes developed from concepts of morality, not the other way around. — Questioner
Language is not used to 'shape' reality. That's manipulation.
— Philosophim
I think this is naive in a way I find it hard to overstate. Language absolutely, 100% shapes our reality — AmadeusD
For the teleological explanation, we ask, "What is it good for?" Does it produce a good outcome? Well, in the context of natural selection, we can say that any traits that are selected for, have the effect of increasing fitness - improving the chances of survival and reproduction. — Questioner
So, you are saying that goodness comes from God and we know this because the Bible tells us it's so?
I think the more likely explanation is that we evolved something called biological altruism.
Altruistic behaviour is common throughout the animal kingdom, particularly in species with complex social structures – — Questioner
This is about language. — Philosophim
The claim it is the default definition is a given. Go to anyone you know and say, "A woman was walking in the woods." Wait a second. Then ask them, "Did you imagine an adult human male or an adult human female?" Of course we all know the answer is, "Adult human female". That is because man and woman by default do not refer to a role, but a sex. — Philosophim
No, I am not begging the question. The assertion of a definition, and a reason why it is that definition is not a conclusion within the premises. — Philosophim
It's clarity, directness and ability to be weilded for policy purposes means that "man" and "woman" should be distinct from the more nuanced, and possibly undefinable concepts of gender in each case - which can be captured by "transman" or "transwoman" without ambiguity - the "trans" gives you the data you need to categorize accurately without passing any moral judgement. — AmadeusD
I would have agreed with this, if TRAs and the entire ideological movement didn't also exist besides trans people who want to do this. I think the concept of "my truth" is absolutely unacceptable in a civilized society, so we're going to disagree on that anyway - but just on empirical grounds, the people Phil and I and referencing (and we need to be honest about this, as above) are overly, explicitly and aggressive expecting/demanding that others live "their truth" (i.e the trans person's "truth") despite either believing it is a lie, or not really caring enough to engage. You don't have to take part in my self-image, and you don't have to take part in mine - again, even if* it reflects some "true" tension between the mind and body in an individual. — AmadeusD
