quantum physics, complex systems theory — Tzeentch

:up:

These did register but only fleetingly and that explains why I failed to mention their implications. The chaos in Chaos Theory says it all, doesn't it?

Thanks for your concern. Indeed, Greece is a holiday place. It always has been. but that's all it is today. Yet, this is for tourists to enjoy, not the Greeks themselves. They do not even enjoy the money coming in from tourism ...
As for the "torch", I'm afraid it has already been passed to Europe and the US since a long time ago! — Alkis Piskas

I must pray ... for humanity as there's literally nothing else I can do. :grin:

Look at a donut hole. Think about what you can't remember. — 180 Proof

Ok but these, in my humble opinion, are only substitutes for nothing, like trick shots in pool; they're not the real McCoy if you catch my drift.

That said, they're close enough for government work, oui monsieur? Something is better than nothing although there's a clear and present danger that we maybe led astray by these (imperfect) clones.

The temperature in this thread is shooting up rapidly! Must be global warming! :snicker:

It is impossible to think about nothing; there's nothing to think about! The question "why is there something rather than nothing?" is not something a human can answer, assuming I'm your typical human.

What about scientific theories? We can never check for their correspondence to reality as n number of them are consistent with observation and this is dealt with by appealing to principles like the novacula occami (simplicity) & beauty & elegance. In some sense [@A Christian Philosophy] they're innocent (true) until proven guilty (false).

Don't fall to the idealist error of thinking truth is dependent on you. Down that path lies solipsism.

It could still rain without you noticing.

Perhaps in Spain, on the plain. — Banno

Solid copy!

Nuh. It can rain without you noticing. — Banno

:snicker: Think of a universe with only me in it.

For "it is raining" (R) to be true, we have to go out and verify or, if you're Sherlock Holmes, you can infer it from wet shoes. The same goes for "it is not raining" (~R). [Correspondence check]

However, "it is raining or it is not raining" (R v ~ R) is true and doesn't require us to go out and verify anything at all. [No Correspondence check]

This has to mean something, oui?

Yes, you are right and I see your point. But I was referring to the type of language implemented. If you check logic premises they tend to be pretty hard to follow. This is why I wonder if it is more difficult to me to reach "truth" because I can't follow the logic rules. — javi2541997

That's the same problem I face. We're, it seems, in the same boat. Apologies. :smile:

Specialized symbols translate into speed & brevity if you're using pen/pencil & paper. However, have you noticed how cumbersome it is to write logical & mathematical symbols online? LaTex is unweildly & time-consuming. How odd!

And yep I concur, technical symbols tend to be hard to memorize and adds another barrier between us and what's being conveyed - it's like learning an new language and you know how difficult that is. However, once one has the language under one's belt, learning is accelerated. That's what I think anyway; mileage may vary.

I'm a bit confused right now. The notion of a definition includes a word which can be any damn thing you want (arbitrary) although etymology-based ones tend to make sense and are more easily recalled + what the definiens lists are, conventionally, essential features (not arbitrary) of that element/set the word is assigned to. I think I'm making a noob mistake; sorry, I'm new to the game (of philosophy).

Everyone (GP, MC, WG) wants to become rich. The catch is the system that's most conducive to the fulfillment of such aspirations also permits the WG to exploit the MC & GP. The degrees of freedom necessary for a rags to riches story is favorable to the rich get richer, poor get poorer scenario (The Matthew effect). That's what I think anyway, not as certain about it as I'd like to be.

The OP is quite clear; if you pick a definition, any definition, of truth, you'll have to explain yourself.

It is worthy of notice that the sentence “I smell the scent of violets” has the same content as the sentence “It is true that I smell the scent of violets.” So it seems, then, that nothing is added to the thought by my ascribing to it the property of truth. (Frege, 1918) — link

Dangerous ideas like this should come with a warning label!

I'm most intrigued by the unanswered questions of both how and why the Greeks didn't grab the most obvious low hanging fruits in re morality viz. Kantian deontology and Benthamian utlitarianism? These moral theories seem too obvious to miss and yet the Greeks didn't even mention them in passing. What up with that? Something smells fishy here or is it just me? :snicker:

What about the coherence theory of truth?

1. If p then q
2. p
3. q [1, 2 MP]
4. If p then ~r
5. ~r [2, 4 MP]
6. q & ~r [3, 5 Conj]

q and ~r cohere (they're consistent) and so are true w.r.t each other. Lies among which number the white lies (gennaion pseudos) depend not on correspondence (impossible) but on coherence (consistency in re other lies - web of deceit, lies beget lies). Clearly correspondence theory of truth is not the only game in town; plus what about maya (the world as an illusion) and the Cartesian deus deceptor? Consistency aka coherence (theory of truth) is all we can hope for (at the moment).

"Fits" would be the apposite word, not "support". An explanation (how) is the first order of business and only then prediction (why).

Yeah, but I was wrong - there's going to be, at a bare minimum, a partial correspondence (it's raining rain OR it's not).

The mechanistic worldview is an inevitable consequence of science - just because you're alive, you have feelings, a family who loves you, does gravity treat you any different from a stone with a mass equal to yours? No!

That out of the way, what about psychology, a soft science as of now but let's not forget it's slowly but surely going to be mathematized fully in the coming few decades, completing its transformation into a hard science?

So we're just bags of chemistry? — Neil deGrasse Tyson

I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Ok. I stand corrected. However there's got to be a statement that's true without corresponding to anything, either partially or wholly, oui? I can't think of one though.

R = It is raining

R v ~ R is true. Does R v ~R correspond to anything? Tautologies like R v ~R are true by force of logic alone, it matters not whether it's actually raining or not. :chin:

Science

1. Explains (causal): The Challenger space shuttle blew up. How (explanation)?

2. Predicts: Such and such will happen and this is why (proof).

The confusion between an explanation (how) & an argument (why) is a well-known issue, possibly because of the word "because" (ambiguous) used to introduce both the explanans & the premises.

Argument form: Tautology (abbrev. Taut)

1. p & p
Ergo
2. p

---

1. p v p
Ergo
2. p

If desires are our purposes, why confuse the issue with the pesky term "purpose" and just instead say "desire"? — Hanover

Well, as far as I can tell, what God desires of us is what religious folks would consider our purpose. I just ran with that when I said what we want (to do with our lives) is our purpose.

why not ask what your divine task is, as opposed to your personal desire? — Hanover

Because, in my humble opinion, god provides us hints & clues as to what He wants us to do in what we want to do.

The Salman Rushdie attempt is also interesting with regard to the potential escalation of agression/violence. Is Rushdie at an even greater risk now? I think the event precipitated a new rush to buy the Satanic Versus (even I want to read it now). Some will herald the criminal as a martyr/hero which may inspire imitation, making the old conflict new with respect to relative systems of justice/morality.

How many young fundamentalist Muslims, who never heard of Salman Rushdie, have now been educated about the existence of the Fatwah. — Nils Loc

We can only hope that the growth in the ranks of muslims who want to murder Salman will be offset by a similar increase in numbers among his sympathizers.

Muslims should realize that killing Salman will only alienate them further from non-muslims. Islamophobia will intensify and for a very good reason now. Too bad, c'est la vie.

:up:

Logic & Epistemology are branches of philosophy along with Metaphysics, Ethics, and Aesthetics.

Scientists need to be good at logic and understand the limitations of (scientific) knowledge. A few classes in philosophy is a must for any scientist worth the name.

Events & Objects have beginnings. The marathon began at 6:00 AM, the baby was born at 7:25 PM.

Time began at _____. :chin:

As you can see a beginning presupposes time i.e. if you wanna say time began, time must already exist. 180 Proof said the same thing.

Argument form: Constructive dilemma (abbrev. CD)

1. p v q
2. p $\to$ r
3. q $\to$ s
Ergo
4. r v s

The archaic Greek ritual of the Pharmakos (a scapegoat ritual sacrifice) is very interesting with regard to the content of Greek tragedy. It is a myth/rite which structures/influences some famous tragic plays. Aristotle's purgation of emotion (catharsis) for the spectator watching tragic drama is also a word that refers to the magic medicinal function of the Pharmakoi (scapegoat as drug/medicine). The scapegoat cleanses the city, cures a collective ailment, just like a potion or drug might cure an individual of an ailment.

The pharmakos [1] was a human embodiment of evil who was expelled from the Greek city at moments of crisis and disaster. The name is probably, but problematically, connected with pharmakon, ‘medicine, drug, poison’. [2] Both poison and drug were originally magical; so a pharmakon is a magical dose (Greek dosis ‘gift, dose’, cf. the German Gift ‘poison’) causing destruction or healing. Pharmakos then would be ‘magic man, wizard’ first, though the borderline between magic and religion is not easy to define; the early pharmakos might have been ‘magic man’ or he might have been ‘sacred-man’. Then, presumably, he or she was ‘healer, poisoner’, then later, expiatory sacrifice for the city and rascal, off-scourings, and so on. [3] On the one hand, the pharmakos could be the medicine that heals the city (according to scholia on Aristophanes Knights 1136c, the pharmakos is used in order to obtain a therapeia—‘service, tending, medical treatment’—for the prevailing disaster [4] ); on the other, he could be the poison that had to be expelled from the system (he is often ugly or criminal). Thus these two interpretations are not exclusive. [5]
— Compton, Todd M. 2006. Victim of the Muses: Poet as Scapegoat, Warrior and Hero in Greco-Roman and Indo-European Myth and History. Hellenic Studies Series 11. Washington, DC: Center for Hellenic Studies.

I suppose the ritual of the Pharmakoi is a sort of idealized jewel that serves as the Girardian model of the scapegoat. — Nils Loc

Really interesting stuff! Theater (Greek plays) maybe a more benign way of venting, a safety valve for our bloodust via mock human sacrifice (tragedies).

Roman Empire occuppation, followed by 400 years occupation and under the Ottoman yoke. Greece was living in a Middle Eastern kind of culture, when Europe was enjoying Renaissance and then Enlightenment, with artistic creation, in every field, reaching at its peak!
This is what happened to Greece.

But still, after Greece's libaration from the Ottomans, there has been a long period of considerable cultural development, with very distinguihed politicians and men of letters. Distinguihed people from Europe helped a lot in that. Aalso, the Royal Regiment that was established always maintained the quality of life to a notable level; they really cared about Greece and the Greeks. Then, there was a 7-year junta regime that has been responsible for a steep cultural downfall of the country, mainly because of the strict censorship it imposed and its total lack of cultural standards and esp. the artistic ones. And after that the Royal Regiment was abolished and things started to go downhill, esp. in the political field. — Alkis Piskas

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope Greece isn't damaged beyond repair and also maybe its time to pass on the torch to Europe and the US. Greece takes a well-deserved holiday, they've done enough for humanity. :smile:

Interesting points. :up:

Maybe...

Who you really are = Who you think you are + Who others think you are.

Two wrongs don't make a right? :chin:

Anyway, each side (you & others) sees only half of you and the real you is a fusion of both. There are two sides to every story, eh?

'Know thyself'

Would you agree serious observation results in no self? — ArielAssante

While I sympathize with the anatta (no self) doctrine (Buddhism), I don't quite understand it fully. I read some versions of the argument online but I'm not yet convinced. Maybe I disagree with the Buddhist definition of a self - it seems deliberately designed to prove anatta, a no true Scotsman fallacy or thereabouts.

Here's food for thought: Gravity doesn't recognize a self - there's no difference in the way you fall and the way a block of stone of equal mass falls. With respect to physics at least, anatta.

Consider Pontius Pilate's supposed ambivalence with respect to the trial of Jesus. The historical hearsay of Pilate paints him as brutal/corrupt governor of Judea, who sentenced many to death without trial for practical purposes. He is recalled to Rome later in life for excessive and unjust brutality. His giving into the will of the Jewish mob during the trial of Jesus might be a pragmatic concession that brings peace to the crowd but also protects himself from the fall out of his own transgressions against the Jews. — Nils Loc

:up: Strict blasphemy and apostasy laws - the death penalty (e.g. in Islam) - maybe just a cover for human sacrifice. :scream: Think about that!

Vide Salman Rushdie who just barely escaped an assassination attempt a coupla weeks ago.

That sounds about right. We do our best in my humble opinion but sometimes ... the best is not enough.

You know what, it's not that politicians are not up to the mark; it's that politics (statecraft) is (just too) complex. Would you blame anyone for not being able to prove Fermat's last theorem (problem posed in the 1600s, proven only in the 1990s - 3 centuries later - by Andrew Wiles)?

I couldn't have explained it better... That's how politicians work and interact with the citizenship. — javi2541997

Radix omnium malorum est cupiditas. Sorry folks, it is what it is!

You can conceive of a moment as a boundary between the past relative to that moment, and the future relative to that moment. Geometrically, this would be like picking a point on a line -- let's make it the usual line from school and call that point "0" -- and using that point to define a ray , and a ray . — Srap Tasmaner

:up: Correctamundo!

Look forwards and time kinda needs to have a beginning.
Look backwards and time with a beginning is ridiculous.

Life doesn't suck, people suck! Not that I hold that against people - its just instinct & nature doing their thing. There's ample room for improvement though. Bonam fortunam for all who must make difficult choices in life.

N. B. Don't expect a reward!

Any way, one way we could shut antinatalists up is by finding meaning in suffering. Correct me if I'm wrong but religions are nothing but quests for meaning in suffering.