Anyone who responds to me with this loopy antogonizing bullshit gets ignored. — AlienFromEarth
I'm referring to AI, at the moment hypothetical but that doesn't mean we don't know what it should be like - us, fully autonomous (able to think for itself for itself among other things).
For true AI, the only one way of making it self-governing - the autonomy has to be coded - but then that's like commanding (read: no option) the AI to be free. Is it really free then? After all, it slavishly follows the line in the code that reads: You (the AI) are "free". Such an AI, paradoxically, disobeys, yes, but only because, it obeys the command to disobey. This is getting a bit too much for my brain to handle; I'll leave it at that. — TheMadFool
So the universe came from god, and what is god made of? And what made him, and what made him? Oh, you're going to say he just has always existed, and he's non-physical? Or is he physical? Ah, so something physical has always existed? — AlienFromEarth
This is a somewhat disappointing response, you don't seem to have thought about what I said at all. If what I said is correct, and of course I think it is, then all this talk of self-governing, autonomous or conscious computers is vacuous (and you can move on to think about something more useful) — Daemon
When we do stuff, like thinking, or feeling, or calculating or attempting to exercise a free will which we may or may not have, we are actually doing it.
When a digital computer does stuff, it isn't actually doing what we say it's doing. Instead, we are using it to help us do stuff, in exactly the same way we could use an abacus to help us do calculations.
These words you are reading have no meaning at all for the computer. They require your interpretation. It's the same with all aspects of the computer's operation and its outputs. — Daemon
AI (and neural nets) is just a showy way of talking about laptops and PCs. Can you point to an "AI" that isn't just a digital computer? — Daemon
I take it you can't then — Daemon
1) There is no can be such a thing as a "true AI". All AIs are true.to qualify as true AI it has to be able to defy these very instructions — TheMadFool
AI works on instructions (S/W and H/W). AI cannot have a "mind". AI does not think. AI collects data, compares and evaluates them and produces a result that can be considered as "decision".True AI must be fully autonomous agents i.e. they must, as some like to say, have a mind of their own — TheMadFool
AI has no intention. It cannot decide on its own. So, it cannot disobey. Only malfunction.The paradox (AI): For an AI to disobey its programming (autonomy) is to obey its programming (heteronomy). — TheMadFool
I didn't quite get this:The paradox (Humans): For a human to disobey its nature (free will) is to obey its nature (no free will). — TheMadFool
AI and machine learning works on the basis of learning based on a primary code. It is one that doesn’t need to be given instructions time and again. But the true essence of AI is in fact “Artificial intelligence” and that requires free will.
Programming free will into its core program defies the entire purpose of the concept of free will. Going by the fundamentals of Machine learning, it doesn’t have to be “taught” free will. Since it resembles the Neural net of human beings, it doesn’t have to have it programmed in it per se.
Now, the way to do it would be to keep questioning the machine philosophical questions that cannot be accessed on the internet. Questions such as the train problem which needs free will and thinking in order to form a solution. When the machine can answer paradoxical questions and philosophical ones without human interference, it should have achieved “Artificial intelligence” based on our current research. The original questions however would be “Can there truly be inorganic intelligence? Is free will a concept that can be taught to entities? — TheSoundConspirator
Very disappointing. You just want to spout shite and won't engage. This forum used to be quite good, seems like it's fucked now. On you go then, on to the next 12,000 vacuous posts. — Daemon
AI (and neural nets) is just a showy way of talking about laptops and PCs. Can you point to an "AI" that isn't just a digital computer — Daemon
So, I don't know if by "true" you mean that it can mimic 100% human intelligence ... But this of course could not happen, maybe not even in the most imaginative mind ... — Alkis Piskas
I didn't quite get this:
1) For one thing, what is "its nature"? E.g. eating, speaking, thinking ...?
2) Is lack of free will part of a human's nature?
Anyway, it looks like all this is based on false premise(s).
So, no paradox here either — Alkis Piskas
... then you're taking issue only with a falied metaphor.If we take the brain as a computer (computational theory of mind) ... — TheMadFool
"Free" of what?... we need to explain free will (assuming we possess it).
... then you're taking issue only with a falied metaphor. — 180 Proof
Behavorial psychology, brain sciences and most "AI research" since the late 40s/50s have failed to the extent they were based on those antiquated 19th century ideas. Neural processing in the brain is computable, like other natural systems, but that does not entail that the brain (or nature) is a "computer". Wetware is neither "software" nor"hardware" nor both but something else entirely which rewires itself in order to 'process information' (i.e. translating stimuli from the environment into adaptive behaviors which maintain homeostatic embodiment).What about Leibniz and Charles Babbage, George Boole, people who reduced a critical human faculty to computation? — TheMadFool
Behavorist psychology, brain sciences and most "AI research" since the late 40s/50s have failed to the extent they wete based on those antiquated 19th century ideas. — 180 Proof
I thought I have already cleared that there;s no such thing as "true AI". Do you actually read my comments? I'm sorry to ask that, but your above statement indicates that you don't.Yes, I mean AI that mimics human intelligence is true AI. — TheMadFool
No computer is labelled "AI". I explained what AI is. But you don't read what I write ... This is a misinformation and confusion spread in the Internet. Second time caught not reading what I'm writing!a lot of computers these day are labelled as AI — TheMadFool
I said "it looks like all this is based on false premise(s)". A puzzling question that is based on a fallacy or contains false premises or assumptions cannot be called a "paradox". A paradox is a seemingly absurd or contradictory statement or proposition which when investigated may prove to be well founded or true.What do you mean there's no paradox? — TheMadFool
Somethis is missing here. I assume tou mean "If AI is true, then ..."If AI then necessarily it should possess human-level autonomy. — TheMadFool
AI (and neural nets) is just a showy way of talking about laptops and PCs. Can you point to an "AI" that isn't just a digital computer — Daemon
Quantum computers? I'm not sure. Also, why do you ask? — TheMadFool
Voltage Tolerance of TTL Gate Inputs
TTL gates operate on a nominal power supply voltage of 5 volts, +/- 0.25 volts. Ideally, a TTL “high” signal would be 5.00 volts exactly, and a TTL “low” signal 0.00 volts exactly.
However, real TTL gate circuits cannot output such perfect voltage levels, and are designed to accept “high” and “low” signals deviating substantially from these ideal values.
“Acceptable” input signal voltages range from 0 volts to 0.8 volts for a “low” logic state, and 2 volts to 5 volts for a “high” logic state.
“Acceptable” output signal voltages (voltage levels guaranteed by the gate manufacturer over a specified range of load conditions) range from 0 volts to 0.5 volts for a “low” logic state, and 2.7 volts to 5 volts for a “high” logic state: — https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/digital/chpt-3/logic-signal-voltage-levels/
I thought I have already cleared that there;s no such thing as "true AI". Do you actually read my comments? I'm sorry to ask that, but your above statement indicates that you don't.
Anyway, I will ignore it ... — Alkis Piskas
No computer is labelled "AI". I explained what AI is. But you don't read what I write ... This is a misinformation and confusion spread in the Internet. Second time caught not reading what I'm writing!
Anyway, I am an AI programmer. So, AI is quite real to me as well that the computer I work with is not an "AI computer"! It's just ridiculous! — Alkis Piskas
I said "it looks like all this is based on false premise(s)". A puzzling question that is based on a fallacy or contains false premises or assumptions cannot be called a "paradox". A paradox is a seemingly absurd or contradictory statement or proposition which when investigated may prove to be well founded or true.
I'll give you a classic example. Most people call and consider "Achilles and the tortoise" a "paradox". However, it is very easily rejected as a real problem because it is based on the false assumption (fallacy) the time and space are discontinuous, finite and thus divisible. So there's no paradox here either. See what I mean? — Alkis Piskas
OK, we both believe that each is not reading or undestanding of what the other says. So, here's something more general and simple: It is very evident that you don't know what AI is. So, what's the purpose of talking and talking and talking about it? — Alkis Piskas
Dear @TheMadFool, you are asking me to teach you in here a subject that takes months to learn!What is AI then? Please edify me of it. Keep it simple- I'm computer-illiterate. Much obliged. — TheMadFool
TheMadFool, you are asking me to teach you in here a subject that takes months to learn!
I have already told you quite a few things that pout AI in the right perspective. Yet, you have not taken them seriously.
BTW, and this should actually be my first response to the topic: You shouldn't have launched a topic, start taking in details and develop "advanced" ideas about a technical subject that you don't know well enough! — Alkis Piskas
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