A suggested revision of Ukraine's Peace Formula:
5. Donbas and Crimea to become free transparent independent democracies, under UN supervision (Europol might take a role) until such a time that their developments are deemed sufficiently safe free independent recovered (with borders) for the UN to take leave
7. Investigation of all alleged war crimes, and prosecution where found (e.g. ICJ, ICC)
Seems reasonable enough, as well as technically possible. Or something along those lines. The UN is large enough to handle the load. I'm guessing Kyiv would consider and the Kremlin would deny (pure conjectures on my part). But this could well mean bona fide peace.
Could it be done? — jorndoe
5. Restoration of the Russia–Ukraine border to that prior to the 2014 annexation of Crimea, in line with Article 2 of the Charter of the United Nations — Ukraine's Peace Formula
Prosecution of war crimes in the Russian invasion of Ukraine, including the creation of a special tribunal for Russian war crimes — Ukraine's Peace Formula
↪Tzeentch, peace, more accommodating than the original, protection of people (was raised by the Kremlin), would show bona fide interest rather than neo-colonialist/imperialist/irredentist land grabbery, ease up on unpopular conscriptions, cut down on the destruction and killing, some sanctions relief (perhaps including frozen assets), in the general interest of affected citizens, a step towards (re)building international trust, would work against European/whatever rearmament, independent Donbas is reportedly the sort of thing older Donbas folks occasionally dream of anyway, ... There could be further revision, e.g. military non-alignment (was raised by the Kremlin), a fresh Kharkiv style Pact, ... Doable? Kyiv would have to make concessions. Too much peace-mongering for war-mongers? — jorndoe
Where are you even getting this from, following your own link: — boethius
You can post as much propaganda as you want — boethius
People here in Washington, DC are just ignoring that, making people believe like Ukraine can win, Ukraine can't, Putin won't lose, Putin will not lose, he's not going to lose. — Ron Johnson
It was an attempt to converge acceptability, not a recitation of an old proposal, but to revise bits, hypothesize, and derive whatever therefrom. — jorndoe
Huh? Where do you see that? As mentioned, it was an attempt to revise an old proposal slightly towards more acceptability, and take it (onwards) from there. (Would you like me to reformulate, maybe in Klingon...?) — jorndoe
You can post as much propaganda as you want, but doesn't change the facts on the ground. — boethius
MAGA'ers and boethius echoing the Kremlin circle — "We're invincible" — in words or spirit.
Of course the invaders can be sent home (reportedly a large number already has + o / w). Not via those fatalists though.
By the way, the Kremlin has kicked off another round of their nuclear rattling (rerunning exercises, threatening the UK, France, whoever), I wonder what they're afraid of. — jorndoe
Russia is not invincible, but is winning because that's NATO policy for Russia to win. — boethius
And "Tovarich Trump" will likely disappoint Putin again. — ssu
Interestingly, the Kremlin offered a cease-fire and granted Ukraine an opportunity to return to the negotiating table with the March/April 2022 Istanbul accords as a basis.
Personally, I think Ukraine would be crazy not to at least take a seat at the table. But I know better.
I think we ought to read this latest offer by the Kremlin as a "last chance" type deal, before they will ramp up the pressure on Ukraine another time and this time probably with the intention to definitively cripple it until they can impose their desired conditions unilaterally. — Tzeentch
↪boethius, wait, that's (5,7)(9) propaganda in your book? No wonder you see propaganda and conspiracies everywhere. :grin: Especially against Putin. — jorndoe
Donbas and Crimea to become free transparent independent democracies, under UN supervision (Europol might take a role) until such a time that their developments are deemed sufficiently safe free independent recovered (with borders) for the UN to take leave — jorndoe
If you would just listen to yourself, you would notice how crazy your specifications for being pro-something are. — ssu
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