"In other words, I had no free-will, at all, concerning my birth in this world."

Mmmmmmm..................you expect free will before you exist? That's a first or is that a result of the choice consumerism that you have been a victim of?

"The one who knows they don't know everything or the one who decrees in all certainty a conclusion of which they have no evidence or support other than saying 'because it's so'?"

My definition of a closed mind, Mayor of Simpleton, is a mind that has made its mind up and then closes that mind to anything that may challenge the closed mind.
Consciously or unconsciously that mind may appear to open but fundamentally it has closed.

"woke culture is not real"

In what way, Maw?

Minds opened or closed...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=RFO6ZhUW38w

If anyone can show me one example
In the history of the world
Of a single psychic
Who has been able to prove
Under reasonable experimental conditions
That they are able to read minds

And if anyone can show me one example
In the history of the world
Of a single astrologer
Who has been able to prove
Under reasonable experimental conditions
That they can predict future human events
By interpreting celestial signs

And if anyone can show me one example
In the history of the world
Of a single homeopathic practitioner
Who has been able to prove
Under reasonable experimental conditions
That solutions made of infinitely tiny particles of good stuff
Dissolved repeatedly into relatively huge quantities of water
Has a consistently higher medicinal value
Than a similarly-administered placebo

And if anyone can show me one example
In the history of the world
Of a single spiritual or religious person
Who has been able to prove
Either logically or empirically
The existence of a higher power
That has any consciousness or interest in the human race
Or ability to punish or reward humans for their moral choices
Or that there is any reason other than fear
To believe in any version
Of an afterlife
I will give you my piano
One of my legs
And my wife

Science has a lot to answer for, Mayor of Simpleton. Even science realises its limitations when it constantly updates and changes its beliefs.

"This sounds conspiratorial"

There is a need now, interestingly, to try and dumb down the importance of the Frankfurt School theorists. Conspiracy theory seems to have become a term of derision which, without being too conspiratorial again, also further inhibits any challenge to the new status quo.

"For the purpose of trying to make sense of this thread can you say that this quotation is a statement of your own belief? It's somewhat dumbfounding."

A belief is too strong a word to use and can be used to pigeon hole someone. When in discussion with the fundamentalists, rather than those paying lip service to their religion, there seems to be a belief that this life is a spring board to the next.

"Maybe it would be a good idea to lose yours then, you seem pretty convinced that you are 100% right and no matter others say you will still be right."

If I had a closed mind the question I asked would have been a statement. I am open to argument obviously.

"If one were to say that superheroes have or are taking the place of gods one would have to show some sort of evidence to back up the statements."

The same kind of evidence that God exists? Celebrities are also the new gods, they perform the same cultural, psychological role . God needs to disappear, his role in leading, supporting and nurturing people is over. he is no longer needed and the evidence for that is in the empty churches, the so called Christians that pay lip service to their religion. The Church's authority over anything has diminished. Would the majority of people prefer to listen to Jesus' wise mumblings or the unwise, heedless mumblings of a celebrity/media influencer?


"For any being to take the place of a god would mean that it would have to fulfill the requisites of that god.
1. would have to been responsible for the creation of everything.
2. would have to be the guiding force behind the destiny of mankind
3. would have to be the moral compass of mankind's morality
4. would have to be the object of devotion/ worship of humanity"

Again you are missing the point. You can easily create this God substitute without equally creating your points 1-4. People I know do not look at the subliminal substitute of God with points 1-4 in their head. God is points 1-4 to a fundamental Baptist no doubt but, to the guy in the street who probably only thinks about God when he is in a life threatening situation where he knows Batman etc is not going to save him, points 1-4 are irrelevant. Hopefully you will pick up on the point that, when really necessary, Batman is not really a god to most people ( god not God, of course).

"So is this thread really about advocating for belief in the monotheistic God of Roman Catholicism, or any comparable Christian faith?"

No, it is about the Frankfurt School critically analysing the reason why communism didn't sweep across the world as was forecast back in the 30's. They decided that the Church ( religion per se ) had control over the masses and set about dismantling the authority of the Church. The super heroes are part of that as are many of the popular woke behaviours that challenge everything that has been accepted as gospel even after the enlightenment. God is simply a need for the masses to believe in a protector- thus the invention of super heroes who let children , in particular, realise that you don't need to believe in God to be good , or even to believe in God .
Equality doesn't matter in this life as your reward is in the next. Apologies to the religious members but this is simply about discussion, hopefully an open minded one.

And please learn how to quote properly. — Sir2u

"So the evil of the world is now caused by the super hero movies? How does that make sense?

And the good behavior of these heroes is set as a moral base for the people that don't believe in a god?

I am beginning to think that you are making less and less sense with each post you make.

And please learn how to quote properly."

A closed mind is a good thing to lose.......Evil in the world is not caused by the super heroes. They are there to substitute the need for a god or gods which has opened the door for thousands of years to corrupt religious systems, systems that have hindered the rise of left wing liberalism. They are a tool amongst many to create the subliminal thought that a god or gods are on the same base level as superheroes, myths but nice thoughts. My phrasing could have been better as the superheroes are the good ones and the evil ones are the characters that represent the evil. Having re-read my response to you I guess you could presume the evil ones are also super heroes but that would miss the point of the whole process.

"Great choices for a moral base no?"

That's the whole point, Sir2u. These super heroes represent good and evil without the religious control that goes with it. Governments create fear so you feel safe when they are seen to be our protectors and the Church creates fear ( Hell and damnation) in the same way. It's all about getting away from religious control of the masses by creating a material world that recognises the here and now and not a spiritual world that recognises the here and after.

If so, then these current movie gods resemble the Greek, Roman and Norse gods.

They do indeed.

"If the people are so stupid that they are substituting comic book super heroes for gods then I ask again, why do they imitate and try to be super heroes but have never imitated nor tried to be gods.
Yes some old time rulers turned themselves into gods, power trips, but the common everyday man on the street does not do it, why not?"

Ok, God doesn't go around showing us that good prevails over evil in such a spectacular media driven fashion. We all have a moral base, we all need a moral base and when these morals no longer exist then evil occurs. God is not evidently there for the non believer, He is there only when you choose to see Him. Society needs this moral base obviously but as the Frankfurt School realised it is the religious way of control that hindered the spread of communism as the masses were "happy" to suffer in this life for the sake of a better life in the hereafter. Breaking down the moral tenets of the Church, highlighting for instance the hypocrisy of the clergy and introducing laws allowing gay marriage etc has allowed the liberal Left to take away the authority of the Church . The Frankfurt School left Germany and came to the US back in the thirties and have done a great job of dismantling the need for the Church and introduced a society that is intolerant to intolerance.

"and so they retreat to the idyllic past, but here the image of the past is itself distorted, projected as a kind of utopia from which mankind has departed."

Curious as to whether you have lived in this past to have such a clear view of the distortion. Interestingly politics has separated itself from a utopian view of the future whereas religion still believes in utopia but recognises we are heading towards dystopia. Religion is relaxed about the threats to its existence as throughout history it has been under attack. It still remains the default place to shelter when all else has failed.

" I am being open about my interests."

Are you saying open, Jack, in the sense that you are not hiding anything? Or open from the sense of being open minded? Very different meanings here

"Your reality. With so many millions of people throughout the world worshiping gods who are the creators of everything not many view their god as a simple protector."

"My reality" doesn't sound very philosophical as "your reality" can equally be questioned. The worshipers, in my experience, have little real understanding of God as you may have which makes them easy to control. The Catholic faith is all about Catholicism and maintaining the status quo, too many of the fundamentalists swanning around full of their own importance, berating others and totally oblivious of the hypocrisy surrounding this. Jesus was a radical in his approach to the Jewish Pharisees as they behaved in the same way.

"but the movies are only a very small part of that."

How many times in history do we overlook this kind of propaganda by dismissing it as of little or no consequence. The beginning of such moments always start subliminally and in small measure. That allows them to grow quicker in a subversive way

"God on the other hand can be asked for help any time you want to, and occasionally it comes."

This is my point. God protects us and we call him when in need. The super heroes symbolise the fight against evil, a fight that always eventually ends up with good being the strongest. God is good and also creates the fight against evil within man. Subliminally or not these super heroes substitute the need for God by reverting back to having a god for every purpose. The one God seems banal in comparison.

"If you do not hold sacred the Christian god, why do you capitalize the word?"

"Manners makyeth man" - William of Wykeham.

"Simples" - Aleksandr Orlov

"But what if the truth is not to your liking, what then?"

What does that have to do with it??? The truth is the truth. Emotion, bias etc are immaterial.

" The philosopher needs to be a visionary, not a romantic dreamer, not a shamanic traveller, finding radical healing solutions".

The philosopher needs to be nothing. What he does is reach the truth..By stating what you have stated you have immediately created a bias in this search for the truth. Anyone can come up with their version of the truth. An open mind is much harder than a closed mind for obvious reasons.

I think you replied to the wrong person because it was me who wrote the comment.

"It is fine if you wish to hold onto conventional categories of man and woman. But not everybody wishes to be limited by these concepts to describe their identity. Who has the right to define our identity, our body and minds?"

There are some things in life that are the building blocks that represent real meaning. My point is that it is futile to try to change such foundations as they are what they are and rewording them means nothing other than to the changers. Wondering what comes next? Maybe we need another catastrophe so we all concentrated on the true meaning of life.

"Your comment about gender seems really fundamentalist in saying God created humans as Adam and Eve, a primary binary construction. How about a gender continuum instead?

I do not necessarily believe in God in the first place, but would suggest that the whole argument about God has done a lot of harm to people who have been trying to construct gender identity in a meaningful way.

Of course, not all intersex and transgender people do wish to reject the binary construction of gender. They may wish to become Adam or Eve, while others may embrace both Adam and Eve together within themselves."

"They" can identify, change, manipulate their gender but the reality is that we are either man or woman. Moving away from the main construct of who we really are isn't helpful in the long term. Choice can be a dangerous thing especially when you challenge the whole basis of life.

"On the gender front people are becoming more aware of the entire spectrum. There have been steps backwards in easier gender recognition for transgender people but there is more open discussion at least. The areas of capacity to consent for young people for transgender adolescents is being raised. Also, transgender is being seen in more detail with the plight of intersex people and gender identities beyond the binary becoming more open for discussion in the media than previously."

God made Adam and Eve. You are a man or a woman for obvious reasons. Culture seems to be more about choice and the lessons to be learnt from this should bring us back to the basics again at some point. In the meantime the more we distance ourselves from God's work the easier it will be to control the masses. The Frankfurt School has much to answer.

The fact that lots of people watch these superheroes does in no way negate the need for religion, more over it proves the need for them. People need something to look up to, to guide and inspire them. If it was just a continuation as you state, then it would definitely point towards a need for some sort of religion.

That seems to analyse the situation in a religious perspective. The reality is that the bare bones of the God question is simply as a protector and no more to most people. Obviously to a religious person who has read the Scriptures thousands of times the meaning is far, far more. To reach the masses in the government needs to then society has to be dumbed down and dismantled in a Derrida way which is what has happened. Popular culture now is dominated by celebrities ( God substitutes again).
Jesus was a radical and understood the existential way in which we live. The New Covenant is evidence of that.

Not much analysis necessary. I doubt that they are watching these movies looking for a god substitute anyway.

Are you being philosophical in your analysis? God protects and so do the super heroes. When you are young this can cement itself in your mind and unless you are brought up in a religious family these super heroes substitute a God that you know little about. We all need protection, government knows this. The underlying problem is that the Church is a stumbling block for government as religious people have always preferred to take instruction from the Lord which is why there is so much anti religious rhetoric out there. Get rid of religion and the people are easier to manipulate. China controls its people without much dissent.

Very true Hippyhead.

Isn't the subliminal message more important?

I doubt if the audience being targeted are going to critically analyse the differences between Gods and super heroes. To this audience the super heroes replace the need for God/Gods and thus continue to negate the need for religion , much as the Frankfurt School intended. Dumbing down of culture is everywhere.

Banno : Those that think so have a lower income, less education, tend to the political right and are older than those who do not.

Quite a generalisation. Is this based on facts and if so can you share where you elicited these facts?
In my humble opinion belief in God is helpful for some in being good. There are non believers who appear morally good people and it is irritating when those people are targeted by believers as the group that will enter Hell with their teeth gnashing etc simply because of their unbelief in God.
If you are not taught about being good why would you believe you are not good.

Jack Cummins: I find writers such as Nietsche, Sartre and Camus very helpful in enabling me to make sense of life.Is this not an advantage of the belief, although it is subjective.

Making sense of life is like understanding the rules of the game but that has perhaps little impact on how well you can play the game. I can understand the rules of chess but the next step of playing it well means moving to another level perhaps.

Jack Cummins: So, are you saying that the existential understanding of reality is not helpful?

I'm not seeing it as an understanding of reality, but an understanding of the sequence of events that are used to move within the confines of reality. Do I have a notion of the consequence I am expecting when I post on this forum? If I had, then I act, thus expecting a reaction/reactions and ultimately guiding further acts and reactions to reach an expected conclusion. Politicians understand the existential way in which we live but do not always get the consequence they are aiming for. Usually other actions are taken by others and the politicians becomes the reactor and the consequence may become an unintended one. I've noticed some people are oblivious of the existential meaning of life but are very good at getting the consequence they seek by acting almost subliminally oblivious to any need for understanding.

Jack Cummins
Fides et Ratio - Pope John Paul's encyclical justifies how philosophy and theology are compatible. Catholics are good at the rules, aka the Catechism, to the exclusion of free thought . Some say you are already in Hell because this world is Heaven and Hell. An hour in Aleppo would make you realise which of the two you live in.

Hippyhead:The original author of the story knew nothing of the industrial revolution, nuclear weapons, climate change etc of course. But my guess is that the original author had a deep understanding of the human condition, and based on that understanding could credibly predict where our journey was headed.

We speak about existentialism as though it were a modern conception but the bible seems to focus quite a bit on how existential life is and Jesus is respected by non believers for his radical approach to everything , his understanding of existentialism. I like the point you make about "the story represents in fable form the emergence of thought (ie. knowledge) in human beings".

What is there to torture yourself about? Intellectual laziness? Anyone overcome by fear of committing the unpardonable sin has surely not done so. The sin is not one simple act but an attitude of defiant rejection of the light.

TheMadFool :

I haven't quite worked out how something the size and weight of the planet earth is able to suspend itself
in space the way it does. I have tried to suspend a tennis ball in mid air but to no avail. I also cannot create a being with intelligence that has hundreds of miles of blood vessels, nerves etc. So many things that I discovered when I asked God to show me a miracle to prove he exists when I was young and foolish .In the same way I made the mistake of being blind are you not also guilty of the same? Everything that can be known is out there but we are the simpletons, not God, for believing we know anything.

coolguy8472:

If you go down that road then why not have a policy of giving votes according to the level of one's IQ. The whole point of democracy is that you get one equal vote to do as you please. If the majority want to take away the rights of homosexuals then that's democracy. Equally there are those out there outraged by gay marriage but that's democracy too.
The US has entered a dangerous stage whereby democracy is being ripped apart by those who only need democracy if it works to their biased agenda and when it doesn't democracy is no longer important. Affirmative action takes over and democracy becomes a side show.

Isabel Hu :
St.Augustine suggested that evil is the absence of good and that once good returns the evil disappears. It doesn't go elsewhere, it just stops being. Just like a cure for a disease transforms unhealthy to healthy and the bad just disappears.
Adam and Eve was a great story that highlighted the problem of allowing good to disappear thus allowing bad to appear. This then shows us that good is better than bad. If you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution then that throws a darkness over whether the Adam and Eve story really happened.

The whole concept of justice/rules/regulations is a human one created by free will. If there were no free will then there would be no need for rules and regulations. Whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant to the
idea of free will. Free will is just that, free will.
The irony of rules is that without them there would be no "sinning" as without those rules we would be unaware that we were breaking any rules. A tiger is unaware when he kills a human being that it is wrong to do so as he is unaware of any rules telling him it is .He is simply hungry and a human being is food. The rules are designed to steer the free will toward the rules intended direction and as you know there are so many people in prisons that have used their free will to ignore them.
Free will creates as many problems as it solves and logically you have to wonder why.

Jack Cummins ; " I simply wish to ask the question of what is the purpose of philosophy?"

Without philosophy we descend into a biased truth, a truth that is simply "my" version of the truth. The interesting problem seems to be that for the truth to be unbiased it is necessary for that person seeking the truth to have his/her memory banks erased. That way the truth can be investigated from a zero start.
Philosophy has to be used from that zero start standpoint and this creates as many problems as it solves

The interesting thing about Christ's parables is that they are put together to attract a certain thinking process. If you just take the parable at face value then you may as well read it and move on without gaining any insight into the intentioned meaning. Rightly or wrongly I read this parable as meaning that even if you reach out to God in the last few moments of your life, just like the person who turned up for work at the last minute, you will get the same reward as someone who has believed and trusted in God all their life. That may seem unfair to those who have "sacrificed" their life to God but it also raises the question of whether it is faith or works that justify you in the eyes of God.

KerimF : "As, in many other languages, a word may sound differently in different writings.
Here, I mean by rules, the ones which are imposed on others, and in the name of justice, the one who disobeys them deserves a certain punishment".

Surely KerimF you cannot "impose" rules on anyone as they have the free will to ignore them. The actions will create a reaction and a consequence which seems the whole point of our existential lives. That doesn't mean you can "force" anyone to do anything though. You have the free will to end your life so rules are irrelevant. To impose rules you will need the ability to direct a person's free will which is the real issue which surely makes free will a key factor and so necessary and perhaps the reason for its existence.