Well said. I'm not a skeptic, but I think their arguments are meaningful, and can't be as easily dismissed as waving one's hands about.

You haven't bothered to read and understand Baden or @StreetlightX. — boethius

Or I don't agree with what Street and a couple other socialists have said. Baden was making a more reasonable argument.

If you just want to shout and insult, you can do that in youtube comments. — boethius

Nah, I'll do it here.

he peaceful protesters are laudible only insofar as their belief in peaceful protesting ability to influence a fair (enough) political process is actually true. — boethius

They have been successful before. That doesn't mean everything can be fixed at once. So more are needed.

American's today do not condemn the Boston riots and looting that birthed America, but the privileged classes that owned the tea did so at the time; so, from a moral perspective, this maybe all that we are seeing, and nothing else. — boethius

Except for the local people who have their livelihoods destroyed and people hurt during the protests. There's been a few deaths now.

I doubt that our skill at using this word can be converted to some explicit, exhaustive theory. — path

Yeah, probably not.

something akin to the Balkan peninsula. but i could be wrong. — christian2017

You mean different regions becoming their own countries? The protests aren't aimed at succession, and they have a common goal which is to force police reform. Things could devolve into more chaos, but it's not putting pressure on states breaking up. This isn't a regional fight between different states.

Why does the skeptic not doubt the existence of the mental, of the inner? Perhaps because the skeptic assumes without proof that language/thought is 'inside.' — path

Well, call it mental, subjective, inner or whatever, the skeptic has doubt because of issues with perception, memory, equally good arguments for and against whatever, and the like. But it doesn't have to be solipsistic. It could be an inter-subjective kind of skepticism where we agree on human experience, but getting from there to claims about the external world are seen as problematic.

in my opinion this is the end of america. — christian2017

What do you think would replace it?

Have you noticed the USA is currently on worse footing with itself than HK is with China, and is having worse riots than any country in Africa, in fact anywhere in the world, since the Arab Spring? — ernestm

Yeah, this blew up real fast.

There was no looting during the riots in HK. — ernestm

I admire how organized and disciplined the HK protestors are.

You're right.

Imagine thinking this is necessary. Listen to that guy's anguish over having his business burned down.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1266847371725541380

Fuck you assholes who justify this shit.

Isn't Moore's claim like an astronomer thinking stars, galaxies, giant gas clouds, space dust, etc. exist by just looking at her telescope? — TheMadFool

Pretty much. It accomplishes nothing against the skeptic. Like skeptics hadn't considered having hands before.

Adopting a precautionary strategy is the correct approach when the risk is uncertain and potentially devastating. — Andrew M

Yeah, it's better to err on the side of caution than risk something a lot worse.

Where exactly is the boundary between internal reality and external reality — TheMadFool

Our perception. Hands have nerves, so they're part of it.

Here's a good reddit quote:

Protesters hand a rioter over to police for what looks like trying to break off some concrete to throw it. That's what's needed. And the police need to respect the peaceful protesters and stop shooting stuff at them.



https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/guaghc/protesters_hand_rioter_over_to_police/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Police being confrontational has escalated the situation unlike places where they joined the protests. Maybe it would be best at this point to back off and let the looting die down. Show some solidarity with the concerns of the protesters.

Care to enforce that?

I can't wait for Biden to win in November.

You quoted a shill piece for a corporatist racist. — StreetlightX

Was any of it untrue, asshole?

As if black voters vote as a collective block, dickhead. — StreetlightX

I quoted an NPR article, dumbass. But you can go look up the percentage of black folks who vote democratic. 91% voted for Hillary. Bernie lost the primary in part because he wasn't appealing to older black voters. They do like Biden though.

Easy stuff to look up. But you know better.

Imagine thinking voting will solve this. For who? Joe Biden? That piece of shit has done more to entrench black poverty in the US than Trump could ever dream of. — StreetlightX

Biden presents as the person that can do that not just because of his ability to win the African American vote. But there is a sense that he can win over some of those white, working-class voters given his Delaware-Pennsylvania roots. So Biden sort of meets the two prongs of pragmatism. One is, can we trust him to keep our civil rights protections in place? And is he electable. And on both scores, he did better than any of the other candidates that entered the Democratic primary this cycle. — https://www.npr.org/2020/03/10/813922126/why-joe-biden-is-the-pragmatic-choice-for-black-voters

But you know better than black voters what their interest are and how they should approach the current situation. It's quite telling how a protest over racism and police brutality is turned into ranting on the evils of capitalism.

Antjuan Seawright, starting at 0:25, explains why violence is not the right strategy, and how peaceful responses in the past to injustice led to changes.

This is was also a step in the right direction where the police chief tells officers to resign who didn't have a problem with kneeling on someone's neck for nine minutes.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/500022-tennessee-police-chief-tells-officers-who-dont-have-an-issue-with-george?fbclid=IwAR3KVB5jdTzgVPWcKehFYNVcDIIHHSIsOegVB5de10NKQ8cS-xfATQFCj4o

That's a good point.

It is a big deal. See the penalties. — Outlander

Yeah:

The offense is punishable by a range of imprisonment up to a life term, or the death penalty, depending upon the circumstances of the crime, and the resulting injury, if an

Problem is you need the Justice System to enforce it. I'll agree with Street about one thing in this thread. The officer should be charged with 2nd degree murder. And the other three are accessories.

Here's one idea for reform. A national registry for bad cops so they don't get rehired.

I meant specifically; why do you think that 2nd amendment gun nuts aren't out protesting with their guns already, when they've seen journalists being fired on, peaceful protesters being assaulted, people being fired on while standing in the doorway to their own private property? — fdrake

It's not their fight, and they tend to be more pro-police and military. It's the elected officials they have a beef with. In particular, Democrats.

Also some of them are full of shit.

What do you think the answer is? — fdrake

Not a shootout and not one group of protesters fighting another angry group.

The police departments need to be reformed. People need to vote for candidates who make that a priority.

But they're not in the streets, I wonder why? — fdrake

Good question but best if they stay home.

Trump does need to shut the fuck up and not iinflame matters further. Let someone more responsible in his administration talk when necessary. Revoke his Twitter account.

I might not have a say, but he does:

What's your ad-hominem attack on my character? — Echarmion

There's a lot of that in this thread for a philosophy forum.

Ilhan Omar on how those destroying minority businesses are not part of the protest or interested in justice.

https://www.facebook.com/IlhanMN/videos/254086762346145/

Anyone who is favor of destroying their businesses, right or left, fuck you.

and collapsing state — unenlightened

Sorry to disappoint you, but the state won't collapse.

Well, hands aren't exactly "external" reality are they? Hands are too me to be proof of anything other than me, no? — TheMadFool

Well, you might say your body is part of external reality. That you have a body moving about in the world proves there is a world. Some people want to argue the subjectivity/objectivity divide is false. It's all objective. Problem is it can go the other way and be all subjective.

So how do we know which one it is?

Black people need to arm themselves with the most powerful weapons legally available and when they see a cop trying to murder one of their community, make a citizen's execution arrest — Baden

Fair enough, but the Tulsa riot started over what the white people saw as a black uprising because of a shootout when armed black folk came to protect a black man arrested from a lynching. Which was good, until shots were fired.

Just saying it's dicey. Maybe it would work today. It's better if the city arms them.

This is the right way:



Places were police join the peaceful protesters, listen to what they have to say, instead of spoiling for a fight.

Honestly, if Chauvin gets off then I'd join in some of the riots. Not against private businesses though. — BitconnectCarlos

Thing is that a jury gets to decide that unless they convince him to plead guilty for the good of the country. So you never know.

Should we riot over a jury decision? It's one thing not to prosecute cops, but it's another when they have their day in court. As long as the prosecution and judge do their jobs.

A jury decision is a citizenry thing. It's different if a judge gives the cop a BS light sentence.

Honestly, drive by shootings are more common. Let the Black Panthers deal with that. — frank

Yeah, maybe let black people police their communities so at least you remove the racial factor. It needs to be coordinated and supported by the city. Give them the resources they need.

Yep. How much of it comes from the tone set by their leaders? — frank

You mean like the being tough on crime or the war on drugs? Yeah, that's an issue. Problem is then with he voters liking that sort of thing. At least the drug war is losing some steam.