No, the reason is that people cannot cope with the fact that we don't have free will. — Christoffer

So, do you believe that the man in the OP does not have free will? At the moment, the poll is 80% does not have free will and 20% other.

Logically, he would go directly diagonally across the field. Being tired he decides not to exercise his free will as to another path. I don't get it. — jgill

So he goes directly diagonally. The covering is removed. Only his diagonal path is black. The remainder of the field has been painted white. Did he have free will, or not?

I think that's a caricature. It would take a bit to unpack it all. — baker

It's certainly simplified but I don't think it's incorrect. An in-depth discussion might require an entire book of its own.

I’d love to hear your thought on how his arguments don’t hold up! — T4YLOR

Check YouTube for multiple criticisms of Craig's Kalam Argument.
(The Kalam is a Kalam-ity of an argument.)

Progressive toward what? — baker

More at ProgressiveRegressive_Excerpt.docx

Many posts seem to me to ignore or misunderstand the OP.
Let me try again with a simple example.

2,000 years ago, many people believed sin and demons cause disease.
This belief found its way into stories about a certain miracle worker, Jesus.
By one count, Jesus performed 34 miracles and 23 of them concern healing.
How did Jesus heal?
By forgiving sin and casting out demons (although once he used some supernatural spittle to cure a blind man.)

Since then, we've learned that bacteria and viruses cause disease.
But the false teachings of Jesus are enshrined in scripture.
The result? Google “Christian parent deny medical treatment child dies"

Old beliefs (which may have seemed rational at the time) find their way into scripture where they are preserved and propagated even today. Some results: disbelief in evolution; belief in an young Earth; and children dying of curable disease because their deluded religious parents deny them medical treatment.

To cite another example, a Jehovah Witnesses may refuse a blood transfusion even at the cost of their own life due to words written in a book that has a talking serpent, a mythological worldwide flood, and a flight of Jews from Egypt that even Israeli archeologists say never happened.

There are some good teachings enshrined in scripture. And there are some very bad teachings, as well. The enshrining occurs because of religion's childish epistemology where because some book or alleged prophet or god-man said something, it must be true.

it seems hard to justify the idea that religion makes people particularly more regressive — Count Timothy von Icarus

It seems obvious to me that for many believers, believing in witchcraft and demons, and denying evolution and geology (Young Earth Creationism) derive from Christian belief. Not for liberal Christians. But for Christians who take the Bible literally, i.e., fundamentalists. For example, Sarah Palin and Mike Johnson are fundamentalist Christian lunatics.

Hegel, Cantor, Maimonides, Descartes, Dogen, Avicenna, Augustine, Eriugena, Proclus, Newton, Eckhart, Avarroese, Leibniz, Porphyry, Pascale, Maxwell, Berkeley, Ibn Sina, Bonaventure, Hildegard, Al-Ghazai, Cusa, Erasmus, Rumi, Merton, Plotinius, Anselm, Abelard, Al-Farabi, Ibn Kaldun, Plato, Schelling, Bacon, Magnus, Boyle, Kelvin, Eddington, Pierce, Godel, Faraday, Mendel, Pastier, Lister — Count Timothy von Icarus

Quite a list but not to the point.
Plato was not Christian
Plotinius, Porphyry and Proclus were Neoplatontic philosophers.
Ibn Sina, al-Ghazai, Rumi, Al-Farabi, and Ibn Kaldun were Islamic
Some of the Christians you mention were not fundamentalists.

( Lisa Barrett, How Emotions are Made)

Josh, you seem to have some objection. Can you put it in your own words?

Do you suppose there might also be educated Christians and uneducated atheists? — Hanover

I do.

"CAN religion perpetuate and promote a regressive worldview?" or "can religion be USED to perpetuate and promote a regressive worldview". — LuckyR

If someone is a fundamentalist Christian then their religion MUST accept a worldwide flood. Etc.

It follows that your emotions, thoughts, and inner world are not you. — creativesoul

Good point. The only candidate for our permanent, enduring self is our awareness. But we also have a relative self. When someone says something about me, they usually refer to my thoughts, emotions, body, profession, family, nationality, etc.

A human is so much more than that. Being aware is so passive. — Banno

The idea is to determine what about me is enduring (or, at least, relatively enduring). Thoughts and emotions change in a second. The body changes slower but changes nonetheless. Awareness seems to be the only possible candidate for an enduring, relatively unchanging self.

Because in their original context such doctrines and teachings were part of an integrated spiritual culture. — Wayfarer

I have the eclectic attitude that if something is true, then it's true regardless of context. If natives believe the bark of a certain tree can cure headaches and have folk beliefs about why the tree does so, that doesn't prevent scientists from extracting the active ingredient and synthesizing it as aspirin.

This paragraph is a different topic, which I have no experience in, so I won't speculate. — Patterner

It goes beyond what I've personally experience, too.

What I'm getting at is similar to the difference between watching a documentary and being a part of that documentary. I think that ambiguity may be built in to your speculation. The difference is in who is doing the "watching". If you go back and re-live a part of your life, will you be you, now, re-experiencing that life? If so, you are not re-experiencing, so much as watching from the outside. — Banno

The fundamental question, I believe, is of personal identity. One view is that our physical, emotional, and mental sensations being temporary, don't constitute me in the deepest sense. Rather, the more permanent consciousness which is aware of the sensations constitutes my personal identity. Under this view, I (my awareness) would be re-experiencing the current life I'm experiencing.

But there are, of course, other views of personal identity.

Banno,
I'm thinking of the the Block Universe as completed, done. And I'm thinking of a disembodied consciousness as having some sense of self. And also as choosing to experience a life (or portion thereof), a life of which every part already exists in the Block Universe. I may sit down and watch a movie and lose myself in the movie, becoming so lost in the drama that I forget I'm just sitting on a couch and watching. The idea is vaguely similar: the disembodied consciousness experiences the movie of a life, but better because the movie is in 3D, and has sound, odors, touch, and taste sensations, too.

... it is the soul that gets reincarnated; that thoughts, feelings, the body are not the self. — baker

I think the concepts of "soul" and "disembodied consciousness" are similar, if not exactly the same. Choosing to live a life is choosing to experience all that life's physical, emotional, and mental sensations. So, we are in a 3D movie where 3 refers to physical, emotional, and mental sensations. I think that idea is similar to the idea that we are living in a matrix.

I think "supernatural" is a vacuous term because we do not yet know the limits of the natural world.
We can assume some phenomenon is beyond what is naturally possible, but we cannot know that is is.

Very interesting question. First, it's important to clarify that the initial argument about divine hiddenness was focused on its role in fostering human free will and moral growth during our earthly existence. The nature of heaven and its impact on free will and moral growth may be significantly different from the conditions on Earth. While divine hiddenness may no longer be present in heaven, it does not necessarily imply the loss of free will or the cessation of moral growth. — gevgala

I took your initial assertion as God is hidden to protect our free will. Now, you seem to be saying that ON EARTH God is hidden to protect our free will but things may be different in heaven. How is this not special pleading? If God is blatantly obvious in heaven but we nonetheless have free will in heaven, then free will and knowledge of God CAN co-exist.

Besides, didn't Adam and Eve know God existed? Did they have free will? And then there's God appearing to Moses, talking to Abraham, Moses, Elijah, etc. Did all those people lose their free will after God spoke to them?

Thank you for your reply "Art48." I am 100% certain that I am conscious. No infinite regress is involved with this. Did you watch the Robert Sapolsky video excerpt? If so, what do you think? — Truth Seeker

OK, I'd agree about 100% certainty of my own awareness.

I watched part of the video, but it’s part 5 of 6, so I decided to watch all of part 1 of 6 at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX7bs4uvPyc

I think that no free will and entirely free will are two extremes, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Does the concept of 100% certainty involve an infinite regress?
A: I know X with 100% certainty.
B: But are you 100% certain that you know X with 100% certainty?
A: Yes, I am 100% certain that I know X with 100% certainty.
B: OK, but are you 100% certain that you are 100% certain that you know X with 100% certainty?
etc.

Yeah, "nihilism" has been used as a boogeyman for a long while now. It's like the Reefer Madness of philosophy. — wonderer1

!LOL

If I really do cease to exist when I die, then I’ll never know it. If I cease to exist, there’s nothing left to know I no longer exist. — Art48

The problem that introduces is nihilism. Nihilism doesn't have to present itself in a very dramatic form, like a deep sense of foreboding or dread. It can simply manifest as the sense that nothing really matters. So if death nullifies or negates any differences between what beings do in life, that amounts to a form of nihilism — Quixodian

It is unarguable that if it's a FACT that I cease to exist, then I'll never know I'm dead.Because I no longer exist.

You seem to be taking issue with the BELIEF that I cease to exist after death and asserting the belief implies life is meaningless. That's arguable but, in any case, is not what I'm saying and an entirely different question, i.e., does life have meaning?

I suspect that there's a third Jesus - that of the religious community a person belongs to. Often based on a priest's or preacher's version. Many followers are too 'frightened' to formulate their own notions and surrender to the account of a compelling and authoritative apologist or cleric. — Tom Storm

I'd say that a person's personal Jesus incorporates some of the religious community's picture of Jesus.
I think we agree. How we decide to count the number is not important.

This is why any authentic spirituality, I contend, must necessarily be apophatic - the way of negation, the cloud of unknowing. — Quixodian

Would you agree that the idea that personal Jesus is a mask implies that at least some of personal Jesus' characteristics must be inaccurate and, thus, should be negated? (Negated in the sense that a person ceases to believe those characteristics apply to the God behind the mask?

The problem with God-behind-all-masks is the classic problem with Kant's reality-behind-all-appearence. — plaque flag

Regarding Kant, Schopenhauer noted that since we are a thing-in-itself, it should be possible to directly experience at least one thing-in-itself, i.e., our own existence. If God is our ultimate ground of existence (per Vedanta, Ekhart, & other mystics), we are capable of experiencing the God-behind-all-masks.

I suggest that appearance should not be understood as a blanket thrown over reality but simply as that reality from a perspective. Consciousness is not illusion or screen but the being of the world itself. Along these lines, God is already something we are looking it from different perspectives. — plaque flag

But some perspectives can be false, as when we see a mirage and think we are seeing water. If God is ultimate ground of all existence, then I agree that God is already something we are looking at. But most of the time, we don't see God. Rather, we see people and places and things.

A state where embarrassment, prejudice, bias, shame, guilt, hatred and resentment are no where to be seen. Because these all depend on having a sense of self consciousness, a sense of discrete and defined relationship to the external world. — Benj96

I've been watching some videos about Advaita Vedanta as presented by Swami Sarvapriyananda. I think it can be argued that Vedanta aims to help us return to that state (not 24/7, of course, unless we're ready to leave the body).

There is no counter-evidence. The truth is there is no way to know if a particular outcome is from God, it could simply be chance or even deterministic. — Sam26

I agree. If someone believes God always answers prayers but that sometimes the answer is "No" then there is no way to tell if prayer works or not.

T Clark, I agree they are trying to convey compassion and fellow-feeling, but there are many ways to convey that. I don’t see anything wrong with analyzing the particular way they select.

180 Proof, Carlin was a better theologian than some professional theologians.

Banno, “Prayer is incoherent. Like most of Christianity.”
Amen. Here’s a new book I’m reading that makes the same point.
“The Anti-Christian Book: Truth is Anti-Christian. The Bible tells Enormous Lies about God.”

Here's something to think about. Try to pinpoint the present, the exact point in time, which divides the future from past. Every time you say "now', by the time you say "now" it is in the past. — Metaphysician Undercover

A bullet at any instant is at some point in space but my perception limits me to perceiving it in some region of space in that I cannot tell exactly where it is. Ontologically, the now may be a point in time even if I perceive it as a small region of time.

As to the OP, what is important, I think, is not what we say of it, but what we do. I can imagine two outcomes. 1) Someone practices trying to often reflect on how now is always the same, until they actually see the world that way. Or 2) someone doesn't. For 2), it doesn't really matter if they agree with the OP or not; the result is the same.

This approach sees a purpose of philosophy as transformation. This may seem as aiming too high. Maybe transformation of a human being into a person more in accord with reality is better left to psychology and/or religion?

I don't mean to belittle any other purpose of philosophy but I think it's valid including transformation among those purposes.

And what's any of it to do with God? — Vera Mont

I wrote,if God exists. The point being if we are only really in the present (not the past or the future), then if God is real, our only point of contact where we could possibly meet is the present.

Frank, the chart is interesting. Can you provide a link to the IIT project?

Can you have consciousness without any content? — frank

We can see consciousness remains when the objects of consciousness change. I have a thought, then experience an emotion, then see a tree, then hear a song, then another thought. The contents change but consciousness remains. So, (for me, at least) it's easy to believe consciousness without content is possible. And, as TheMadMan points out, consciousness without content (i.e., pure consciousness) is a goal of meditation.

For me boredom is worse. And personally I think boredom is closer to depression than sadness is. Because people can feel acutely and strongly upset regularly, but would not consider themselves depressed. They might consider themselves emotionally labile, dramatic, sensitive. But not depressed.

I could well imagine a chronically bored person on the other hand saying things like everything is pointless and futile. Worthless. Meaningless. — Benj96

Of course, clinical depression exists but I've also seen some spiritual teachers say a stage of the path to enlightenment is where the world has lost its attraction (boredom) but awareness of higher truth is not yet established.

People watch sad movies but don't watch boring movies.
Apparently, sadness is more entertaining than boredom.
So maybe boredom is worse?

Do you think computer's are conscious? — wonderer1

I don't think they are now. Not sure about the future.

Consciousness is simply a bad word as it has come to build in a set of wrong beliefs about the architecture of mind. — apokrisis

You seem to say "consciousness" is a bad word for describing brain activity. If we limit consciousness to biological activity, that would imply a computer (or other silicon-based, non-biological entity) could never become consciousness. Would you agree?

Also, I've heard that psychedelics reduce brain activity but increase awareness. If true, would that suggest that consciousness and brain activity are two different phenomena. Comment?

The objection would presumably be that the brain remains receptive to some stimuli — bert1

I'd say that the brain being receptive implies consciousness

My own current view is that consciousness is always present, but psychological identity perhaps isn't. During deep sleep there are no memories, values, desires etc. The patient ceases to exist as a psychological entity. That might be consistent with your second point — bert1

It is consistent.

Why think consciousness is required to be awakened from deep sleep by a noise, rather than a subconscious process monitoring input from the ears and starting a subconscious arousal process? — wonderer1

I'm using "consciousness" in a broad way, as something that perceives, something which is aware. Under that (admittedly broad) definition, a subconscious process would be a form of awareness, i.e., consciousness.

I don't see why? I am aware of you, but you are not contained in my awareness. — unenlightened

Another person is not contained in my awareness. So, that person can be in pain or even deceased and I might not know it. But if soul is part of me, then if I can be aware of my soul it must intersect with my awareness. If soul and consciousness do not intersect, then I cannot be aware of my soul so why should I care about what is happening to it?

I have a problem with the idea that we are separate from the body. To me that's an awareness function that has gone rogue. A point of awareness is that we are the body's steward. — Philosophim

Doesn't saying awareness is our body's steward imply awareness is separate from the body?

I imagine my soul as inhabiting another realm - call it a 'higher reality', or 'heaven', or the 'spiritual realm', and voluntarily immersing itself in this particular life as an educational, or character-building exercise, or just an entertainment, as one might play an interactive game, or listen to a lecture. — unenlightened

But can we be aware of our soul, or must we accept its existence on faith? If we can't be aware of our soul, then why should we care about its eternal fate? If we can be aware of our soul, then doesn't that mean that soul can be contained in awareness?

It seems that either awareness and soul are identical, or awareness contains soul. — Art48
I don't feel this is right. — unenlightened

I'm assuming awareness and the soul exists, and say that soul must be contained in awareness. How would you describe the relationship between awareness and soul?

The Most Dangerous Superstition is a book written by Larken Rose, in which he argues that the belief in political authority, or the institution of government, is the most dangerous superstition people have been taught. He uses examples of the countless evils that have been committed in the name of political "authority" and the "law", such as genocides, acts of aggression like unprovoked wars, and oppression.

Mr. Rose also makes the argument that the belief in political authority/the institution of government is a superstition because no one can legitimately wield political authority, as no one has the right to rule or forcibly control another as if he or she were his slave. — AntonioP

Does he discuss a better social structure than political authority? If not, then his criticism may be true but it's not actionable. Simply eliminating all political authority would be a disaster. Does he describe a better system?

So the ceiling and the floor are the same. — TheMadMan

If so, it would seem we are seeing different sides of the same thing when we look down and up. Atma is Brahman?