Evils, Theodorus, can never be done away with — Plato, Theaetetus, 176a, translated by F.M. Cornford

:ok: but...

the good must always have its contrary — Plato, Theaetetus, 176a, translated by F.M. Cornford

Makes sense, yin-yang, but what if...

In the divine there is no shadow of unrighteousness, only the perfection of righteousness, and nothing is more like the divine than any one of us who becomes as righteous as possible. — Plato, Theaetetus, 176a, translated by F.M. Cornford

But then...

All other forms of seeming power and intelligence in the rulers of society are as mean and vulgar as the mechanic's skill in handicraft. — Plato, Theaetetus, 176a, translated by F.M. Cornford

Hmmmm :chin: We ain't seen nothin' yet.

deceiving themselves — Plato, Theaetetus, 176a, translated by F.M. Cornford

People and their delusions. Me and mine...

a penalty that cannot be escaped. — Plato, Theaetetus, 176a, translated by F.M. Cornford

Which planet?

Sophistry, is it pre-philosophy or post-philosophy?

A sensible idea! :rofl: — EugeneW

:smile:

Love can never take over the color of love. Love identifying with love is deemed to stay invisible perpetually, in eternal confusion — EugeneW

:heart: This means love, ok.
:broken: This means losing in love aka heartbroken
:hearts: What does this mean?

Yes! That's why there are less and less monasteries. At the same time it could explain the mysterious sounds heard in the Himalayas once in a while... — EugeneW

:sweat: What people are willing to do trying to solve the problem of death...suffering...which is it? Let's all build this monastery, wear robes, tonsure ourselves, mumble mantras, and confuse the hell out of each other.

Reality kicking in... Thoughts can't be prevented. Although... there seems to be a way. Concentrate on the red pearl. Thoughts might fade away, sound and vision conflate into an amorphous blob of black. The noise of gas subsides. The lighter isn't noticed. The bang of explosion will be your last. Gone in a blaze of thoughtless but mindful glory. — EugeneW

:lol: That's how a typical day at a Zen monastery must be like, eh?

That's because you're no chameleon. — EugeneW

Could you please be less cryptic. I know it's your thing, but it has to make sense...hopefully at some level, and I'm willing to try unless of course you deem it beyond my ken.

Not intending to be cynosure but wouldn't chameleons flip out when the world was a chameleon,? — EugeneW

Sorry, I don't follow.

:ok:

Yes, look at the red pearl. Is it red? Is it a pearl? Are you looking? What is looking? Go turn off the gas, you numskull!

One is fully capable of overcoming one's idle fascination with paradoxes and mysteries. — baker

So you think!

We are at X place, and we need to be at Y place (Enlightenment), that in itself is a situation I find troubling.. — schopenhauer1

Interesting. What if we're already where we wanna be? We're at X, we wanna be at X.

On second thought, ignore the remark.

Selfish, you mean like threeish i.e. not really egoistic, but close to egoistic. Isn't that a good thing?

You used the word first. — baker

Yep but I'd like to hear what you havta say.

It's entirely in place to dismiss the remarks of someone who has presumably devoted decades of his life to something, but who then made a flippant remark to the effect of — baker

It's obvious that you aren't acquainted with Dan Barker's mission and work.

Why mystify?? — baker

That, my friend, is the right question. — Dr. Lanning

Any ideas?

I wonder what Barker thinks about cookbooks. Maybe he just barks about them. — baker

He (Dan Barker) has in depth knowledge of the Bible. He was a priest for 2 decades if you must know. Don't dismiss his findings so flippantly.

In Freudian psychology, altruism is classed as an advanced ego defense mechanism. — baker

What's that?

Millions of tiny organisms die just so you can breathe. To say nothing of those who must die so that you can eat. — baker

That was baked into my post. The people most sensitive to this rather disturbing truth are the Jains (god bless them).

A more nuanced approach to death and suffering kinda makes them ambiguous, morally that is. What defines success (evolutionarily)? Numbers: more the merrier. The meat industry has led to a population boom among cattle, pigs, chickens, etc.. In other words, by killing & eating these animals, we've made them highly successful organisms. This sounds weird, but we're actually helping by killing & eating. What if something similar is happening with "millions of tiny organisms"?

Where in the world (geographically) did this take place? — baker

:lol:

If a reasonably intelligent person like Dan Barker can reduce the Good Book to one phrase "married bachelor", it's obvious that the Bible is one big contradiction from cover to cover! Exactly the kind of treatise a Zen master/Taoist would like to get his hands on to mystify his/her students!

Genre. Do read up on it. It should answer our OP question. — baker

I do agree that the Biblia Sacra isn't officially classified as a Zen tome, but there's no hard and fast rule that says books in one genre can't contain material on another subject.

Then there's the problem of not knowing - people who did the categorization may have been ignorant of a book's original intent/purpose.

Incel and its offline branch.

Not interested in your drivel. Bye — I like sushi

:lol: No offense Possibility

That's Odin invented links! — baker

Sorry, I don't follow.

True. Is that your propaganda? — L'éléphant

My subconscious: I don't know what's going on there.

think for yourself — 180 Proof

Good advice! I don't quite like the idea of relying on predigested material. Isn't that someone else's shit? :grin:

Good day señor!

Well, think fast. — L'éléphant

Slow and steady wins the race? :grin:

Are you gonna be nice now? — L'éléphant

I'll have to think about it. :wink:

I'm talking about the genre of a text, and your apparent inability to recognize it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genre — baker

What do you mean genre? I thought we were discussing advertizement.

And on you. — L'éléphant

:smile:

Follow the link. — 180 Proof

:ok: I'm intrigued by your statement: deterministic nonlinear dynamic systems.

It's a compendium of concepts (determinism, nonlinearity, dynamism, system). I was just wondering which of these is the key to compatabilism.

Elaborate on what? If you missed it, I included a link in my previous post. — 180 Proof

How do we reconcile determinism with free will, as must happen in compatibilism?

@baker

There were people (mostly Christian monks) who believed that Taoism (one arm of Zen that kickstarted the whole Koan aspect of Zen) is a Christian sect.

3 facets of the Tao

1. Yi: Subtle
2. Shi: Faint
3. Wei: Elusive

Yi-Shi-Wei: Yahweh

What does advertizing and fame have to do with the genre of a text? — baker

Well, you brought it up! Shouldn't you be the one telling me?

:chin:

Because it is not advertised as one and it does not classifiy itself as a Zen koan.

Nor is it advertised or does is classify itself as a logico-philosophical tractatus. (If it did, then we would be justified to expect a rigid internal consistency from it, at the very minimum.) — baker

Not all companies advertize their products: 6 Top Brands that don't advertize (much) are still ridiculously famous

I was simply contemplating an interpretation of altruism that meshes with our inherently selfish genes. It actually squares with what I've been saying for quite some time now on this forum (nobody's reacted favorably to it as of yet): We're probably conflating selfishness with self-reliance/independence. What I mean is if someone can stand on their own two feet, become capable of looking after themselves, that's a good thing, oui? This state of being able to live without assistance from others might be mistaken for egosim.

That excerpt sits well with Socrates' overall take on knowledge. (I neither know nor think I know).

nonlinear — 180 Proof

Is that (nonlinear) the secret to compatibilism. Could you elaborate on it if it's not too much to ask. Thanks.

He has made the same claim before, along with the same reluctance to actually support it. — Paine

:ok: