I find it hard to imagine how anything like 'a world' could exist without the possibility of suffering

Hmmm. So the holocaust was inevitable, necessary. Ought implies can?

Protagoras makes clear — Fooloso4

:grin: Protagoras...makes...clear :rofl:

Does she carry the whip? — EugeneW

No, you carry the whip, cur! She, however, wields it! :smile:

The more you attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you dug the deeper down you go. — Fooloso4

:lol:

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging! Common sense 101!

This forum is so much better than most forums because the people here can see the subtle differences and see things from different points of view. — Athena

I bet that you tell that to everyone in every forum you visit! :smile:

He must be destroyed! — baker

:smile: Yes, yes, let's destroy him...her...it...er...who was it you wanted to destroy? It won't hurt will it?

Fact: GARTHER, n. Men invented this elastic band to keep women from jumping out of their stockings and desolating the country. — Bitter Crank

Desolation, everywhere I look, it's desolation! I need to make an appointment with the ophthalmologist. Why does everything look gloomy grey and deathly brown?

Another typical example how a man's reach must extend his overbite. — god must be atheist

:smile: I know a dentist!

Yes, combined with the notion of whether AI can be a mind or no mind or never mind. — god must be atheist

Spot on! :up:

Sounds like you’re done with the easy globally continuous stuff and are raring to go with the local discrete stuff. Bring on gauge symmetry and how it generates particle physics. :grin: — apokrisis

Ne quid nimis. Gracias señor!

My own argument against God is that we are images of God but are forced to suffer while God is not forced to suffer. This is not symmetrical because one would expect God to have the power to get us to heaven effortlessly like he is in heaven — Gregory

How does it all hang together? We have to work for it i.e. we need to earn our place in heaven here on earth, a place where being good is, well, "impossible" (try it) - aut neca aut necare (it's either you or me, better you, right?). Doesn't it give you the feeling you're playing an RPG in nightmare mode? Some may disagree though and these folks are the lucky ones; for some reason unfathomable to me or those like me, they were born to do "great things." Details? None of my business.

It's true, if you like. No argument against it. But the challenge remains: a non-person to give the impression of a person. If the non-person succeeds, the Turing test is a success — god must be atheist

The problem of other minds? :up:

The brain is analogue. — EugeneW

It has to be, oui? How else did it grasp continuua? The question is did the brain actually comprehend continuua? Infinity enters the scene, all hell breaks lose!

Fuzzy logic!? Unwieldy, clunky, useless! Binary thinking is simpler, :kiss:

The last time I read a book on physiology was 2 decades ago. Times change, things do. The dynamic nature of life seeps into all that it touches, including knowledge. Phlogiston, the ether? WTFery is this?

I'm gonna have to read (a lot). Alas, time and tide wait for man. Swim or sink! Sinking...

On a more serious note, what's with spectrums? How can a digital brain comprehend continuua?

High resolution digital photos can conceal their "jaggedness"?

Just act! — EugeneW

No! Don't ask me why?

Deus, sive natura: God or Nature. Not an offer of choice, a statement. Spinoza at heart, eh!

Ataraxia: Equanimity via, inter alia, aporia (bewilderment, more like awe & wonder). The warrior's code à la Bushido (Samurai).

Aponia: Absence of pain, an existence I'm unfamiliar with. Negative utilitarianism. :up: Pain is the hole in our hedonic vessel. Unless you fix it, no amount of pleasure is gonna fill that vessel of ours.

Apatheia (i.e. amor fati): The wild horse tamed, finally. Phew! That was tough! In modern psychology, a symptom of depression (emotional blunting); there are no rules, if there are rules, they can be bent/broken. One way to treat hypothermia is to give the patient an infection and induce fever! Reality is not just stranger than we can imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine!

Accept one's fate, welcome it with open arms and life is easier. Isn't this a bit defeatist? Stoicism written all over it. I like it, what in the world do you want to achieve? You're gonna die anyway, like everybody else! Pater sancte, sic transit gloria mundi!

Solitaire et solidaire (i.e. non serviam): Could be conflated with loneliness and tribalism/groupism. Solipsism anyway, temet nosce (re Delphic Oracle).

I feel like new!

Maybe the National Organization of Women? Catholic orders for women (nuns)? Women's colleges (a few of those are still in business)? — Bitter Crank

Women's organizations, yep, that's a start! Strength in numbers, ja? Old wine, new bottle.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. — Daniel Bonevac

It's quite possible that it's a cycle and we're just going through one point in this sexual carousel: Women$\rightarrow$ Men $\rightarrow$ Women $\rightarrow$...round and round we go, sometimes fast, sometimes slow.

Topic header edit (recommended): On the matter of logic and the possible world(s)

inherently evil — creativesoul

Life's simpler that way. If we dive into minutiae, our heads might explode from the sheer volume of data that needs processing. Very mathematical in spirit, but looks like there's a time and place for everything.

Your exposition for my benefit (merci beaucoup) reminds me of the principle of the uniformity of nature, a simple statement of which is that sugar tastes sweet in Paris or in Tokyo, in 2022 or in 1927! Would you say that I, at the very least, now possess a rudimentary understanding of Noether symmetry?

Hi, may I say something. I was taught that neurons are either on/off (action potential or no action potential). That's digital architecture, oui? Why can't computers, digital machines, be conscious?

It's not that simple. Yeah, I know.

I look at Hitler, whose evilness few (allegedly insane) people dispute, and think of him in terms of not what he was, but in terms of what he could've been. That kinda sorta gives me some peace of mind. I'm Jewishy.

If I had that much power to bestow on others to see whether they would turn into tyrants or not, I wouldn't do it. — Bitter Crank

I'm a slow learner!

Those images are of increased bloodflow. — creativesoul

Indirect means, logic at its best, the apogee of reason! Is it possible to see without looking? Yup!

They fire(for most people anyway) while observing another having a familiar experience. It's said to be the basis for empathy, although I'm not convinced of that. I've serious issues with how some people use fmri imaging to draw unwarranted conclusions. Those images are of increased bloodflow — creativesoul

Oh! No one knowingly does evil, eh Socrates?

do my best to not make enemies. — creativesoul

I managed to tick off a mafia don. Luckily or unluckily, he was a bit s-l-o-w, in MO, not in mind. Here I am in the belly of the Sarlacc. I have a name to go with the face now, Jabba the Hutt! :smile:

Another 955 years to go...

Mirror neurons. — creativesoul

What are mirror neurons?

Nah. It's better to know both. — creativesoul

Sounds like a (good) plan. Hopefully neither your friends nor your foes get wind of it. They would cancel each other out if equal in number and depending on how fervent their love, and how intense their hate, for you is.

Please wait, I'm on another call. Thanks for the awesome input!

Quantum entanglement, since it's a mirror effect (if up then down or if down then up), wouldn't help in prayer, the exact opposite of what you pray for will occur. So, prayer miracles attributed to saints would be bogus and its better to have enemies (who wish you ill) than friends (who wish you well).

Nonetheless, interesting!

I don't have sufficient knowledge to say, but academics who presumably do (men and women) have both asserted that matriarchies are few and far between, if they existed at all. — Bitter Crank

History is shrouded in mystery. Nothing to do but speculate. I recall reading about matriarchies in prehistory that survived until very "recently" (thousands of years). Trust momma nature, she speaks the truth: if it's bad for the tribe, the fewer of it will survive (to tell the tale and break up the party in a manner of speaking). How many matriarchical societies again? In the present that is?

If some one says, "Women are more ethical than men" I would want to now how that had been determined. Just off hand, I am not sure anyone has determined that one sex is more ethical than the other. Men and women often occupy quite different roles in life, and the ethical decisions they make may not be comparable. — Bitter Crank

If you want to know whether a person/group is good/bad, all you have to do is give them power and see what happens post that.

Come to think of it, is it possible that matriarchy was a failed experiment like communism is? Women + power = hell for the tribe, in no small part due to the fairer sex being more prone to abuse of power than men. The males, obviously, rebelled and established a relatively more benign patriarchy that's delivered the promised goods of peace and stability until now.

So much of history is missing from the record books.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. — George Santayana

Males and females have more similarities than differences. — Cobra

:up: Amazing insight!

I won't poke my head into your thread again. — T Clark

:smile: For a minute there I thought you were going to say something else.

Alterations in the anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry of the brain produce corresponding changes in consciousness, perception, personality i.e. the mind is affected.

How much does the thought "I'm in love" weigh? How many Joules of energy is it? These questions should guide neuroscience, the physical arm/wing of mind studies.

Are there other aspects of matter and energy that we've overlooked? The mind isn't just energy or matter even, it's a pattern in the energy/matter. Are patterns physical? Patterns, forms, tend to transcend substance: I can sculpt a statue of you in wood, stone, ice, and so on. Form is not bound to substance. Multiple realizability (re Hilary Putnam). Mind transfer from one substrate to another (carbon $\rightarrow$ silicon); isn't that a win for nonphysicalism? The hidden agenda, cynicism in full bloom!

The cataphatic method (of affirmation) fails us, we're unable to pin down what a philosopher is. Isn't that a hint that we should try something different, something like the apophatic method (of negation). It maybe possible to know what a philosopher isn't, via negativa, if we can't tell what a philosopher is. A philosopher is God then, oui? Popper's falsificationism, the bottom line, is the view that we can't know if we're right, but all is not lost, we can know if we're wrong! That's a relief! Oui, monsieur/mademoiselle?

Update

It appears that philosophers are under the impression that to know how to live the good life and then to live it we have to be expert metaphysicians, logicians, epistemologists, aestheticians, and ethicists. I suppose they're right. If so, time to eat my own words, pass the sauce please! Premature ejaculation! :lol:

Parable of the Poisoned Arrow

Whether the world is finite or infinite, limited or unlimited, the problem of your liberation remains the same. — The Buddha

:flower:

We have freedom in thinking — L'éléphant

Muchas gracias amigo! This is what you've been saying and I'm only trying to figure out how exactly.

Here's a list you might wanna turn over in your head

1. Can't think (stone)
2. Can think but not about options (stoney)
3. Can think about options (neither stone nor stoney)

If someone can't mull over available options, then there's something wrong with him. — L'éléphant

You mean s/he's mentally ill?

Philosophy is simply a way of looking at things and if you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change!
To consider something as being GOOD or BAD, is a product of being judgemental and I suppose we are ALL judgemental to some degree, however I disagree that the the object of philosophy is to live the good life.
We are alive right now because NOW is the only time where all life finds itself. Although we may prefer that things be different then what they are here and now, the truth may only be found in what IS, not in what might be. — Present awareness

Do you mean to say philosophy is more like a personal truth than a universal one? That kinda makes sense to me, solipsistic undertones there, but I take no issue. If it's true, then it's true no matter what I think/say/do, oui?

Then next paragraph is also worthy of note. What IS are facts, what MIGHT BE are dream-like and aligning one's expectations with facts is, I hear, paradoxically liberating instead of oppressive.

A little birdie told me thinking of good and bad as absolutes is not a a good idea. As Philosophim was kind enough to point out "add color to your palette". However, ethics, given the circumstances, is a major issue. Especially since it seems to be entwined with well-being, not just of an individual, but of the globe itself. Your position on the matter is too defeatist for my taste. From your vantage point it'll seem like I'm asking for the impossible. I suppose it boils down to points of view. Mind you, I'm not Polyanna/Dr. Pangloss. Neither is it that you're a Gloomy Gus/Negative Nancy! What IS is!

You're making broad assumptions about a profession based on...what? — Philosophim

No, no, he has a point! :up: