Comments

  • Metaphors and validity
    I'm thinking we tend to aim a word like 'real' socially. If something caused lots of people pain at the same time, it'd be called real. But if you suffer alone, not so much ?jas0n

    So, a person who's in pain but alone, isn't in pain? When a tree falls and there's no one around, does it make a noise? :joke:

    I never quite understood the distinction between one and many. Isn't a group made up of individuals. How can society be happy when individuals aren't? Also, elections, each vote counts; am I to give my input and expect no output? Life, no fair!
  • Popper's Swamp, Observation Statements, Facts/Interpretations
    The age of rationality is ending, the age of irrationality and emotional incontinence is at hand.apokrisis

    Do you think that's a good thing? You know, evolutionarily...?
  • Metaphors and validity
    germans are apesBanno

    Correction! Aryan...apes?

    A metaphor shows something, rather than saying it.Banno

    :up: Rings true!
  • Metaphors and validity
    Which I can't make sense of, so maybe I'm Cypher. It hurts to stub my toe, whether or not I call the pain 'real' or 'simulated.'jas0n

    Would the real hurt more than the simulation?

    It frequently pops up in discussions on Wittgenstein. Pain presumably collapses the pereceived boundary betwixt reality and dreams (illusions).
  • Popper's Swamp, Observation Statements, Facts/Interpretations
    Philosophy of science is as useful to scientists as ornithology is to birds. — Richard Feynman

    :lol:
  • The Origin of Humour
    It is both useful and fun at the same timeapokrisis

    :up: That's what to me is a joke that stands out from the rest.
  • The Origin of Humour
    Inaccurate, much of what we all write here can be found on google as you well know. Ok, I take it this has hit a nerve of some kind. Let's forget itTom Storm

    I don't want to insult your intelligence by doing something you can do effortlessly.

    Coming to satire, I find it very stimulating, intellectually that is. May be it doesn't evoke similar sentiments in you, but you said something that's on point - different strokes for different folks. Forgive my oversight, I should've made it explicit, but then pornography...
  • The Origin of Humour
    How does google assist with this question? My question is can you think of an example of satire that is engaging with serious philosophical thinking? You might say, 'Succession' (which I dislike...) do you follow?Tom Storm

    I don't usually do things Google can do.
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    now we've come full circle.Philosophim

    Not we, you have come full circle.
  • The Origin of Humour
    The sad clown is a cliché but having met some comedy writers and performers over the decades, I'd have to say that most were very anxious and depressed. The idea that you would want to make people laugh as a career does pose some questionsTom Storm

    A cliché simply means overused to the point of no longer being interesting. It doesn't mean it's false. There are many comedians who can make you :rofl: but they're themselves battling severe depression. Having a sense of humor doesn't necessarily mean you're on cloud nine (24/7).

    Can you give me an example?Tom Storm

    Google.
  • What is mysticism?
    Then how were you distinguishing between the true value of a measurement, and a measurement which is close to the true value?Metaphysician Undercover

    There are ways...

    We could calculate using algebraic techniques. In the case of squares, Pythagoras' theorem shows us that the diagonal is .
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?
    You sound very similar to a recently disappeared posterJanus

    :lol:
  • What is mysticism?
    No one says math is perfect. But it is interesting and useful.jgill

    :up:

    @Metaphysician Undercover
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    I understand that. Isn't a random event a reason for why something happened?Philosophim

    Not if

    There are no accidents. — Master Oogway
  • What is mysticism?
    I have a slightly different opinion. I think we will not discover something better until we reject what we have. As I said, necessity is the mother of invention. Everyday I pick up my hammer and bang some nails. I think this tool's just fine, it serves the purpose well. I will never replace it unless I am dissatisfied with it. And until someone shows me, look it's got this problem and that problem, I'll continue to think it's just fineMetaphysician Undercover

    This is poor logic. I've used a block of wood on nails, when I couldn't find my hammer. When I did find my hammer, I threw away the wood.

    True measurement, to me, simply means the correct value of (say) the length of a line. So, a square has a diagonal whose true measurement is .
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    an anthropic heuristic (,i.e. useful working assumption)180 Proof

    :up:
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    Wrong. The PSR states there is a reason for everything. But what if that reason is an accident?Philosophim

    An accident is meant here as a random event.
  • Are there any scientific grounds for god?
    So, the basic idea is that science has two components:

    1. Description: How matter & energy behave, detailed in the laws of nature, some of which are mathematical and some of which, like in the biological sciences, are not. Newton discovered the law of gravitation but didn't have a hypothesis to explain why objects with mass "attracted" each other: hypothesis non fingo!

    2. Explanation: Constructing hypotheses (educated guesses) as to why the laws of nature are the way they are. For example Einstein's theory of relativity explains gravity as just the warping of space around objects that have mass.

    ---

    3. Metaphysics: Here we try to ask and answer questions about things science takes for granted: What is causality? What are space & time? What is existence? Etc.

    The idea is not to make an empirical claim, which can be verified/falsified, but to analyze the conceptual schemata that science uses.

    Am I on the right track or no?
  • The Origin of Humour
    Satire is highbrow populism.Tom Storm

    Well yeah, but that's too narrow a definition in my humble opinion. Satire comes closest to what Wittgenstein said about how serious philosophy can be done with nothing but jokes.

    mysticismTom Storm

    Probably, there's something called Holy Laughter, supposedly happens during religious activities like sermons, etc. and can range from :smile: to :rofl: . Speaking for myself there's the possibility that our subconscious realizes how ridiculous faith is.

    no sense of humorTom Storm

    Heraclitus, the weeping philosopher,

    Sad Clown Paradox

    Stańczyk (painting)

    Comedians are not always happy people.
  • What is mysticism?
    What I am saying is that the reason why perfection is impossible is that the tool (mathematics) is fundamentally flawedMetaphysician Undercover

    And I'm saying we don't have an option. Infinity and infinitesimals are the best available tools we have to study curves. Maybe some day we'll discover something better. Until that happens, we're stuck with what we have.

    Need to get a better tool, properly designed for the jobMetaphysician Undercover

    :up:

    there is no true measurementMetaphysician Undercover

    You mean to say the diagonal of a square has no true measurement? What is a true measurement to you?
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?


    As far as I can tell, you're mistaken about the Null Hypothesis. It's a statistical tool applied to populations and is designed to assess causality.

    connection between god and existenceNickolasgaspar

    This statement makes zero sense. I can understand a connection between prayer and cure, between smoking and cancer, but between existence and god, what does that even mean?
  • Jesus and Greek Philosophy
    Romans killed Jesus as a political threat, as they had killed many other prophets, brigands, rebelsRomans are to Blame

    So it was written, so shall it be. — Egyptian Intro, Rome Total War
  • Jesus and Greek Philosophy
    Greek thought peaked roughly 2.5 centuries before Jesus preached his first sermons in the Levant. This puts Jesus in a time when Greek civilzation was breathing its last. Yet some of the oldest manuscripts of the gospels are in Greek!

    What gives?
  • The eternal soul (Vitalism): was Darwin wrong?
    genetic program which stores information with a history of three thousand million years!Wayfarer

    I don't know who it was, probably Yuval Noah Harari (Israeli historian), that said that our DNA contains a record of the past experiences of our ancestors going all the way back to the first life forms 4.5 gya. If only we could decode this rather interesting double-helix tome written in the language of life (DNA/RNA).
  • What motivates panpsychism?
    What would qualify as a 'solid reason'?bert1

    We must possess data that at the very least suggest the possibility of objects (animate/inanimate) having souls.

    We can't let our imagination get the better of us; plus, we haven't yet proved the existence of souls in humans, our best bet at doing so. If you couldn't prove charcoal is carbon, what hope is there for you with diamonds.
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?
    As for atheism, the certainty of the claim makes me cringe ...
    — Agent Smith
    What "certainty"? For most atheists, at minimum, it's a probabilistic (i.e. falliblistic) belief warranted by (some or all versions of) theism's lack of corroborating evidence, or sound arguments in contrast to ubiquitous counter-evidences from comparative philosophies, comparative histories, as well as natural and social sciences. At minimum, theism is a belief consisting of claims about "God", etc the truths of which are highly improbable in the context of all we know (so far) about nature and human existence. "Certainty" is a canard, Smith. One simply says to a theist, in effect, "How do you know there is a God?", which is quintessentially a skeptical question, and thecrest follows from her non/answer.
    180 Proof

    If atheism is fallibilistic + probabilistic, I have no issues. It's just that some/most atheists don't make that aspect of their position explicit. Hence my confusion. There's enough uncertainty in atheism in this form to allay my fears of unbridled dogmatism; as it is our hands are full dealing with this very same problem with theism.
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?
    Oh!

    So, we assume no connection between God and existence (H0) and then try to disprove that assumption i.e. prove that there's a connection between God and existence.

    What does "connection between existence and God" mean? It seems like you're saying it isn't the claim "God exists". If so, the Null Hypothesis method is pointless, oui?

    Since the Null Hypothesis seems to be about correlations, it's mostly got to do with causal hypotheses and isn't suitable for proving/disproving existence. Existence, causation, two different things!
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    In the face of evidence to the contrary, we don't have to "assume the PSR". Consider e.g. acausal / random vacuum fluctuations (or radioactive decay) which are fundamental to the "structure" of physical reality.180 Proof

    I wasn't clear enough then. Let's say we're going to assess whether a certain phenomenon (p) has a reason or not.

    I first think of a list of possible reasons, ones that seem most likely. Say they are a, b, and c.

    Next, I evaluate a. Is it the reason for p? No!

    Now I check b. Is it a reason for p? No!

    Last but not the least, I look at c. Is it the reason for p? No!

    Conclusion: Phenomenon p has no reason.

    As your keen powers of observation will have informed you, I had to assume the PSR for me to demonstrate that phenomenon p occurs for no apparent reason.
  • What is mysticism?
    That's exactly the problem. I thought mathematics was supposed to provide us with precision, perfection in our understanding. Then I was disillusioned, realizing that it's all a facade, and deep misunderstanding lies behind.Metaphysician Undercover

    You're too quick to pass judgment. The precision is there, it's just that your way of looking at math (without infinity and infinitesimals) doesn't allow mathematicians to show you how the margin of error can be reduced to an arbitrarily small value.

    Imagine if the true value of a measurement is 4.5879... units. I can get very, very close to that value and that should be more than enough. Note mathematicians are fully aware of this rather embarrassing state of affairs. Irrational numbers were called incommensurables.
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    Citation neededemancipate

    You got me! Just a hunch. Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris seem happy and late Christopher Hitchens seemed most pleased with how he rocked the Papal boat.
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    Well, this is hard to explain. I'll give it my best shot.

    Suppose there are things that happen for no rhyme or reason.

    How would we know?

    We'll have use the method of elimination which is, to be very brief, listing some candidate reasons for something (x), and then demonstrating that no item on such a list is a reason for x.

    As you can see, we always have to assume the PSR.
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?
    Null HypothesesNickolasgaspar

    Can you please expand and elaborate on the Null Hypothesis.

    Is it like assuming there's no God and then making an attempt to prove God's existence, failing which the Null Hypothesis (there is no God) holds?

    I've heard of the Null Hypothesis in community medicine where a correlation is assumed not to exist or deemed as only coincidental, a study is then conducted, the data analyzed, and assessed for statistical significance which is just another way of saying the correlation can't be coincidental. The rest of the method I no longer recall.
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    can't compare absurdism to the PSR
    — Agent Smith

    Opposites of the same coin.
    emancipate

    How much of meaning do we depend on the divine for? Atheists seem as happy as theists if not more. Where is that void in the hearts of unbelievers that can only be filled by, some say, a role in the Divine Plan?
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?


    I never could wrap my head around the claim that atheism is a lack of belief and therefore, these very same atheists go on to say, the onus probandi falls not on 'em.

    What is atheism, how shall we, in one statement, condense their viewpoint? It can't be "God doesn't exist". for the simple reason that that's a knowledge claim and ergo, needs to be proved.

    If, as you aver, atheism is about belief, do you mean that atheists opt not to believe for no rhyme or reason? This doesn't add up now does it? An atheist has to justify why s/he refuses to believe in God unless s/he wants to admit that their stance on the god issue is utterly baseless.
  • PSR & Woo-woo
    And the sufficient reason for the "PSR" is ...?180 Proof

    As emancipate pointed out, one possibility is the PSR's axiomatic.

    However, I suspect there are empirical grounds for the PSR: at a minimum, 99% of things we observe have a reason which is another way of saying they're not random, but deterministic.

    That said, some physical phenomena are recognized to be totally random e.g. radioactive decay.

    I propose two kinds of PSR, explicated below in the context of a bout of Delhi belly and a fire at the office. You stayed home because you had diarrhea; that very day there was a fire at your office, all your colleagues perished. You survived.

    1. PSR1: There's a reason for everything. The fire was caused by a short circuit. All your office staff died because of smoke inhalation or 3rd degree burns.

    2. PSR2: There's a reason for everything. God wanted you to live, he wants you to do something specific with your life. You're part of the Divine plan. That's why you fell ill that fateful day, preventing you from going to office and saving your life in the process.

    PSR2 includes PSR1 but has an added feature viz. a being (God/guardian angel) who intervenes in your life (providence).

    This difference (a supernatural agency) distinguishes the two identical statements PSR1 and PSR2.

    Absurdism has also enjoyed the favour of philosophers. Perhaps less though.emancipate

    I somehow feel you can't compare absurdism to the PSR unless...you wish to bring up the meaning of life which has supernatural written all over it.
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?


    Originality is not something I'm known for. Plus, why reinvent the wheel. Tried and tested theories are preferrable to novel ideas that haven't been vetted by experts/veterans, oui?

    As for atheism, the certainty of the claim makes me cringe, it doesn't sit well with the skeptic in me. Why can't we do what we should be doing, suspend judgement (I don't know), and acknowledge the truth viz. we don't know whether god exists or not, ja? Agnosticism is the most rational position to adopt. Atheism vs. theism is like two people fighting over the color of ball before they've even seen the ball. Agnostics would like to see the ball first and only then enter into a discussion as to the ball's hue. It's just common sense.
  • The 'New Atheism' : How May it Be Evaluated Philosophically?
    New atheism : evangelical :: old atheism : philosophical.180 Proof

    :fire:



    Identifying the issues religions cause is a philosophical endeavor!Nickolasgaspar

  • Metaphysics - what is it?
    Everything happens for a reason. — The Principle of Sufficient Reason & Woo woo