@baker And what of the people who instinctively strive for happy lives,and intuitively try to do good,without hand wringing or philosophy?

@Wittgenstein Your looking at this too much from the media side.
Look at all the ugly old men with fashion model wives and children.
And look at the porn models who end up with lower class guys in terms of success and wealth.

@Apollodorus Yes. I box,weight train,yoga and meditate.
I see a lot of philosophers jumping down rabbit holes and coming to no conclusions. Just look at this forum and the history of philosophy.

@skyblack Sounds interesting,though I'm not a fan of krishnamurti. Any snippets you can relate?

@Apollodorus I see many things as self evident. I see many problems in philosophy as being pseudo problems because of a tradition of neglecting intuition and self evident facts. I see discursive reasoning and overdefined concepts creating false narratives and rabbit holes.
And if a person plays sports or meditates they can see working out problems can be done without linguistic thinking.

Of course all the people who consider themselves not good looking will get triggered by this OP!
But although I am devilishly handsome I disagree.
Society mainly judges by money,prestige,power,social class. Look at trump and hilary clinton. Both pig ugly dogs.
Both revered by millions.
Social class and money first to the superficial.
@Wittgenstein

@Apollodorus You misunderstood my question.
I'm saying you don't need reasoning to know that you exist. It's self evident.

@baker And what do you consider consequential?

@baker So,would not consider it obvious that you type on your keyboard or that fire is hot?

@Apollodorus Is there anything that you regard as true without reasoning? The fact you exist,does that need reasoning?

@Christoffer So Sweden and all the States that are fully open are chimeras hey?
Your just ranting.
If you trust your media and government then lock yourself in buddy.

Where would you apply that, other than in relation to optical illusions and similar?— baker


In politics, in personal relationships, and many other areas. You may buy something made in China that appears to be great only to later find that this is not the case. You may think that a social movement is a good cause only to find that it is more like a weird cult. You may think that an email is genuine only to find that it is spam, etc., etc....

But would you apply reasoning like this to things like other minds,the existence of a self,etc,etc.
Are some things not directly obvious,intuitive and axiomatic? Or is proof and philosophically reasoning needed for everything?
@Apollodorus @baker

@Alkis Piskas Time and space are obviously physical.
They exist. But humans are also time and space.
Time and space must be eternal and infinite,what do they flow into otherwise?
One cannot even imagine no space and time.

@tim wood Very logical.

@Christoffer I will be Frank. You are a scaremongerer.
You have swallowed the government and media narratives to a tee.
Answer me this,in what previous time did we ever social distance or wear masks to prevent colds?
Yet we still here and i have zero fear of covid.
This whole corona fiasco is an IQ and paranoia test.

So what do atheists and theists think of Intuition or immediate knowledge?

@Alkis Piskas It shows how certain things cannot be subdivided. What cannot be subdivided is a unity/eternal.

@Christoffer You've missed the point entirely.
You are suggesting the unvaccinated to stay home?
Yet drinkers and smokers do go out together and congregate together. People can decide themselves about the alleged risks of certain activities.
If you follow your paranoid logic there are risks in old people driving,crossing the road,air travel,etc,etc.
When it comes to morality many of us don't take lectures or orders from authoritarian or paranoid types.
If your soo scared or worried,you stay home.
Funny,I thought vaccines protected you,so what you worried about?

@tim wood The answer is in my posts above. I'm not here to spoonfeed you or Q&A every thought that enters your mind.

@tim wood Not everything requires proof,unless you deify logic. I eat to satisfy hunger. Any proof required?

@tim wood Humans living forever. Clue is in the words.

@Foghorn I think the debate centres around can you disprove human eternity by so called logic or pure rationality? The answer is obviously no.
Even staunch militant atheists like Richard Dawkins accept you cannot logically disprove the existence of God.

@Christoffer Where I live alcohol is not banned in public.
In fact people drink together in pubs! And cigarettes are only disallowed in confined spaces.
And what of people who drink and smoke in groups together inside? Is that considered acceptable health risk?

By the same logic why are people not against alcohol and cigarettes in public?
@Christoffer @Book273 @Foghorn

@Alkis Piskas Correct! What implications does this have for immortality?

@Hanover The debate should be more free-flowing. Let 180 make his case for. And 3017 against. Let them do it piecemeal,and if one is slower than the other so be it. The other can catch up. It doesn't have to be staccato or post for post.
Pretty slow and a very poor response from 180 to respond. 3017s opening post was not ideal,but I get the gist. 180 said nothing.

@Foghorn :up:

@Foghorn I have always said the matrix Is language.
I do disagree on your point about us being small in the real world. I say sometimes it's the opposite. We are beyond measure,but overthinking constrains us by reducing us to a measure only.

@Foghorn I agree that most people "debate" with concepts rather than genuine experience.
Religion at its best is an experience. And refocusing on reality is prayer and meditation.
I'm sure many are living in a matrix of concepts purely out of fear.

@TheMadFool Don't worry.
Knowledge is overrated anyway. Doing is king.

@Madfool Do you know the name of this movie?
A very astute quote from the hero.