• NKBJ
    316
    this is extremely rich from a guy who thought I was wasting my time on voodoo just because I expressed a dislike for the same old boring non-believer arguments.Arne

    No new arguments coming from the believers in magic yet either. :chin:
  • Arne
    295


    Is "creator" a synonym for God?

    Is it possible the Universe is eternal in some way, expand, collapse, expand, collapse, ad infinitum?

    If that were the case, is it not then possible that the Universe is not the result of a creative act?

    And if that is the, case would that necessarily mean there is no God?

    Could there not be an infinite God as well as an infinite Universe?

    So couldn't one then believe in God without believing in a creator?

    Just asking.
  • Arne
    295
    No new arguments coming from the believers in magic yet either. :chin:NKBJ

    Finally, an excellent point.

    But I am quite certain I already stated I had a separate list of boring arguments from the believers.

    Perhaps you missed that?

    My question is whether the OP presumes creator is a synonym for God.

    That the universe may not have been the result of a creative act may be inconsistent with certain religions, but that does not necessarily negate a belief in God.
  • FreeEmotion
    122
    I defend my belief in God as Creator at least as a 50/50 probability, there being no definite answer.

    God-less creation is an assumption that forms the foundation of science. One could assume the opposite as well.

    Note that the survey results would have been different 100, 200, 3000, 5000 years ago and depends hugely on the population sample, which kind of says something about the quicksand of human opinion. In recent Western thought, though, variation from the average value is somewhat suspect also, as an aberration.
  • angslan
    22


    I defend my belief in God as Creator at least as a 50/50 probability, there being no definite answer. — FreeEmotion

    That's not really how probability works, though. You're not assessing the chances that the universe came into existence as it did from some known set of pre-conditions, so this type of probability is not applicable. Are there really only two options, as well?
  • Blake Kelson
    11
    I rank myself a 5 on the spectrum of theistic probability. I don't know if any deities exist but I'm inclined to be quite skeptical. We do know that it is in human nature to make up imaginary God's so that casts some very strong doubt on religion for me.

    The simulation hypothesis has piqued my curiosity as of late, however I don't consider myself educated enough for now to take a stance on that idea.
  • FreeEmotion
    122


    From my point of view it will be an uneducated guess, like it is for most of us.

    assessing the chances that the universe came into existence as it did from some known set of pre-conditionsangslan

    The chance that, given there is no God, or Creator, it came into existence... I cannot see how this is not a biased starting point.
  • Nitya
    3
    There are a number of ways at looking at God. If God is infinite then God is not an object. I can see the body and I can see the universe, they are objects. As I can see the body, I am not the body, as I can know if my mind and thoughts and feelings are cheerful or depressed then I am not the mind. The mind is an object and i am the witness. When I pray to God, I pray to an idea in my mind that I have accepted in the hope that I am on the right path (that is called Faith). The only fact is that that I am, I exist and I know. My belief is that God can feel my devotion and love.
    Surely the purpose of religion is to bring seekers closer to devotion and closer to God.
    Maybe God is infinite and formless, maybe God is the soul of all creation, but I cant relate to that, I can only think about such concepts as possibilities or questions that may never be answered.
    I can relate to God within me, He is not an object! He is knowing and devotion itself. Let me be closer to that!
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