• Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966
    Should a particular colour (like green or blue etc) be considered an abstract idea or a particular idea?

    Its a strange one because it seems to be abstract and general in one sense and particular in another.

    Its particular in the sense that it is the root of the abstract general idea of colour itself which is derived from observing what is the same between the particular colours.

    but it seems abstract at the same time as there are many variants of the particular colours. You can have many different colours of green or blue etc.

    Is each particular idea capable of being broken into parts and therefor turned into an abstract idea?

    Not sure where to take this one. Any help would be appreciated.
  • T Clark
    3k
    Is each particular idea capable of being broken into parts and therefor turned into an abstract idea?

    Not sure where to take this one. Any help would be appreciated.
    Mr Phil O'Sophy

    From my long-ago days as a psych major, I remember that different societies break colors down in different, sometimes very different, ways. Here's an interesting link.

    http://www.k-international.com/blog/colors-in-other-languages/

    So, what does that mean in relation to your question? I'm not sure.
  • charleton
    1.2k
    abstract idea or a particular idea?Mr Phil O'Sophy

    You might want to say what you mean by these types.
  • Caldwell
    163
    :smile: There are no short-cuts in philosophy.
  • Wayfarer
    6.5k
    I don’t think that the question of color was considered in the Theory of Forms however I’m pretty sure Aristotle would consder it to be among the accidents (but I’m only guessing).
  • AngleWyrm
    66
    Color is a wavelength of light, such as 800nm, which can also be stated in frequency. It is objectively measurable through various tools, such as a prism.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966

    I shall check that out see if I can slide it in my essay somehow maybe thank you.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966

    As Berkeley refers to them. Abstract ideas being ideas that are abstracted from a comparison of things but that have no independent existence. So the concept of colour itself is something abstracted from a comparison of all the particular colours such as blue green red etc. ‘colour’ is all the particular colours and none of them at the same time according to Locke, which Berkeley says breaks the logical law of none contradiction and so argues against abstraction. The particulars would be the things that give rise to the abstract. A collection of particular cows gives rise to the concept of cows in general, and so we then have the abstract idea of cow.

    So returning to the question at hand, although colours like red blue green etc can in some respect be considered particular, can they also be considered as abstract because of the many variations that the colour blue can be presented, and so we look at all the colours of blue and from that come up with the general abstract idea of blue, which can then be turned into a particular to layer come up with another abstract idea (colour)

    Same can be said of concepts like man, animal, life etc every level you go up you rely on other abstract ideas to create further abstract ideas.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966

    There is if you take a right at the next wormhole and then hop over the existential chasm...
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966
    Color is a wavelength of light, such as 800nm, which can also be stated in frequency. It is objectively measurable through various tools, such as a prism.AngleWyrm

    There are things recorded we have given the name wavelength but the experience of colour itself and the concept itself is something other than that. Abstract ideas are not limited to colour, we have all sorts of concepts that fall under this category.

    How do you explain things like the dress that was perceived by different observers as both blue and black, and gold and white? The experience is not equivalent to the thing measured objectively, and neither is the concept that derived from that experience.
  • noAxioms
    599
    Color is a wavelength of light, such as 800nm, which can also be stated in frequency.AngleWyrm
    This cannot be the entire story. Even the wavelength of light is not objective, but is completely frame dependent.

    Magenta is a color, yet is not on the spectrum, having no wavelength of its own. Yet it is one of the three primary pigments, along with cyan and yellow. Yellow has a frequency (about 580nm), yet my avatar background does not emit any light near that wavelength. So is it not yellow then? A squirrel could easily verify that it is indeed not yellow, but 'yellow' usually means the property of evoking the 'yellowish' experience in a non-color-blind human, and the avatar definitely does that.

    As to Mr Phil's question, I suppose it is more abstract since any word like 'red' refers to a wide range of colors, often culturally dependent, and a wide range of experience, which varies between observers.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966
    As to Mr Phil's question, I suppose it is more abstract since any word like 'red' refers to a wide range of colors, often culturally dependent, and a wide range of experience, which varies between observersnoAxioms

    So would you say that the abstract general idea of 'colour' is formed from abstract ideas of "particular" colours? See this is the problem i'm noticing, if the colour spectrum can be divided into an indefinite amount of colours, then at what point do we reach a particular colour? The more I think about it the more everything seems to be abstract. Is there any word/idea that can be considered wholly particular?
  • noAxioms
    599
    See this is the problem i'm noticing, if the colour spectrum can be divided into an indefinite amount of colours, then at what point do we reach a particular colour?Mr Phil O'Sophy
    This seems to be an arbitrary choice based on physiological and cultural standards, and seems to be about experience, not about the spectrum.
  • Mr Phil O'Sophy
    966
    but does one not experience indefinite variations of the same colours? And not refer to each variation separately with a specific name but with the general name that matches the colour it is closest too?
  • noAxioms
    599
    And not refer to each variation separately with a specific name but with the general name that matches the colour it is closest too?Mr Phil O'Sophy
    There are finite names to label the non-discreet variation of experience. Hence the cultural standards to group them.
  • charleton
    1.2k
    that have no independent existenceMr Phil O'Sophy

    Qualia
  • Caldwell
    163
    There is if you take a right at the next wormhole and then hop over the existential chasm...Mr Phil O'Sophy

    Anything is possible. :smile:
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