• TimeLine
    2.7k
    I wonder whether I am intentionally avoiding these political discussions as though prepared for some profound ineptitude by moronic ministers that think reality is some boardroom meeting. I almost think they are deprived of human qualities (oof that's pretty nasty of me, but far out). As a guiding legislative principle, equality can model that conception of distributive justice, but as a political tool dangerously conflicts with our freedoms as it assumes that we all share the same qualities and I guess it goes back to that social stratification that produces the conditions that enable productivity and can equally be positive (like multiculturalism).
  • ArguingWAristotleTiff
    2.9k
    Can someone please explain to me what the cultural difference is between: profiling and preference?
  • Baden
    6.1k


    Can you expand on the question?
  • Hanover
    3.8k
    I don't understand your point then. If the graphs show alarming trends of limited upward mobility, and you're not isolating discrimination as the cause, then why discuss the upward mobility problem with the discrimination problem in the same breath?
  • Hanover
    3.8k
    But both are there and tackling the discrimination is likely to alleviate the overall problem, of which upward mobility is a part. I presume you'd agree with that.Baden

    I agree that discrimination should be eliminated. I suppose once we do that, we'll know which problems are the result of external discrimination and which from internal societal failures.
  • Hanover
    3.8k
    Do you think Israel has always wanted peace and all of the conflict over the decades is down to non-Israelis?frank

    Are you asking who's to blame for the lack of peace, the Palestinians or the Israelis? It's a broad brush question obviously with all sorts of actors on both sides over the years with varying viewpoints that we have to throw together, but I doubt you find my response surprising when I say that the path to peace has been most obstructed by the Palestinians.
  • ArguingWAristotleTiff
    2.9k
    Okay. <putting on her helmet>
    If one signs up for a dating site and lists their interest to be in heterosexual males, not homosexual males and not females, is that listing preferences or is it setting up a profile of what you are looking for?
  • Baden
    6.1k


    I don't need to isolate it as the only cause. The macro problem is inequality. Discrimination and issues with upward mobility both contribute to that and they're entangled with each other.

    Do you truly believe that the greatest impediment to African American success is the injustice wrought by white people?Hanover

    So, to answer this question directly, I'd say the greatest impediment to anyone's, of whatever race, background etc, potential for self-realization in a relatively free and advanced democracy of which they are a full citizen is usually themselves. But historical and current discrimination obviously also plays some part in impeding the success of minority groups.

    I agree that discrimination should be eliminated. I suppose once we do that, we'll know which problems are the result of external discrimination and which from internal societal failures.Hanover

    Sure, and the main point of the data was to show that discrimination actually exists as some here seemed to want to go down the rabbit hole of denying even that. Then you try to tackle it and determine how it contributes to inequality and along with what other causes. Lack of upward mobility is part of the bigger picture.
  • Baden
    6.1k


    Haha. I won't ask. It's both anyhow. Your specific preferences (choices in each category) are part of your overall profile (everything about you).
  • Maw
    899
    I think @StreetlightX hit the nail on this head with this. I will just add that "We're All Human" is as much a bromide as the counter-phrase, "All Lives Matter". Both miss the point entirely.
  • frank
    1.3k
    Are you asking who's to blame for the lack of peace, the Palestinians or the Israelis? It's a broad brush question obviously with all sorts of actors on both sides over the years with varying viewpoints that we have to throw together, but I doubt you find my response surprising when I say that the path to peace has been most obstructed by the Palestinians.Hanover

    Why do you think the Palestinians have so persistently obstructed peace (it's been over a couple of generations now)? Do you see it as an aspect of Palestinian culture? The Palestinians themselves? Or is it mostly interference from other ME nations? Do you think the Cold War fostered conflict there?

    I've actually assumed for years that Israel doesn't really want peace. I'm just exploring an alternate view.
  • Sapientia
    5.8k
    Are you sure they weren't going to plant flowers? Because that was my argument from the start. That they were going to plant flowers. And you and Thorngil keep saying they weren't.Baden

    Ah, but Baden, you seem to forget that, as I have argued elsewhere, guns kill people of their own accord. So, even if they were going to plant flowers, none of the Israelis involved are to blame.
  • unenlightened
    2.5k
    I've actually assumed for years that Israel doesn't really want peace.frank

    Dude, wanting comes really cheap, but peace has a higher price than either side thinks they can afford. As Tweedledum and Tweedledee said, "there is no need for us to fight, if only he would let me have the rattle."
  • Sapientia
    5.8k
    In this instance I applaud them.Buxtebuddha

    Damn, that's low.
  • Hanover
    3.8k
    Why do you think the Palestinians have so persistently obstructed peace (it's been over a couple of generations now)? Do you see it as an aspect of Palestinian culture? The Palestinians themselves? Or is it mostly interference from other ME nations? Do you think the Cold War fostered conflict there?frank

    This lays it out fairly well: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3
  • frank
    1.3k
    Dude, wanting comes really cheap, but peace has a higher price than either side thinks they can afford. As Tweedledum and Tweedledee said, "there is no need for us to fight, if only he would let me have the rattle."unenlightened

    Most of what I know about it comes from people who left because the situation was intolerable, so maybe my understanding is skewed. But it looks to me like the price of continued violence is that really cool people leave instead of putting up with it.
  • frank
    1.3k
    There's a chasm between my outlook and yours such that you don't even understand what I'm asking. Weird.
  • Baden
    6.1k

    To be fair, an official IDF spokesman has defended the army's actions by releasing a picture of one of flowers they claim the Palestinians were going to plant.

    1hy2h2i5uge5zz74.png
  • Hanover
    3.8k
    There's a chasm between my outlook and yours such that you don't even understand what I'm asking. Weird.frank
    Weird.
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