• T Clark

    I'm not a geezer. I'm a cantankerous, old, asshole. BC can speak for himself.
  • jorndoe
    What's going on in the Southern US?

    Southlake school leader tells teachers to balance Holocaust books with 'opposing' views (Oct 14, 2021)

    Someone has to stand up to the experts!Don McLeroy (2015)

    Didn't someone predict this...?
  • Leghorn

    Problem is, it is easy to say concerning “hard” sciences like say math and physics, that the mathematicians and physicists should have the say as to what is taught; but when it comes to the social issues, even the medical ones (as we see from Covid and vaccines), because even medicine is very closely tied in with social issues, there tends to be a lot of disagreement.

    When I was a boy I learned that Lincoln was a great president, that he saved the Union and freed the slaves; when I was a freshman at North Carolina, I learned that he was a racist, because, though he freed the slaves, he didn’t think they could live as equal citizens: free, but not equal.
  • Shawn
    Anybody remember this?

  • Wheatley
    Southlake school leader tells teachers to balance Holocaust books with 'opposing' views (Oct 14, 2021)jorndoe
    I summon the mighty A.C. Grayling! :fire:
  • Wheatley

    Anybody remember this?Shawn
    Crocoduck! How can I forget?
  • Wheatley
    What's going on in the Southern US?jorndoe
    Since you mentioned the south:

    I summon AronRa from Texas.
  • Wheatley
    Don McLeroy (2015)jorndoe
  • Shawn
    Does @Hanover resemble Titus Welliver?


  • Bitter Crank
    There are, in fact, two sides to the holocaust -- perpetrators on one side, victims on the other, but they are so closely connected one can not tell one part without the other. It's a serious quandary:

    How much about Nazi views should be presented, and how should those views be framed, contextualized? And when should this information be presented?

    The Jew-hating, racial superiority of Aryans rhetoric of the Nazis will attract some people, sad to say, so that is one risk. As is the case with anti-black sentiments in the US, there were clear anti-Jew sentiments in the US in the 1930s. But conventional anti-semitism isn't the same thing as the decision to kill all the Jews in Europe.

    A third problem is that Jews were not the only targets of the regime: Political opponents, religious opponents, homosexuals, communists, race defilers (aryans who had sex with Jews), and slavic people (Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians), and Roma were also on the list of disposable people. The people of the Poland and the USSR were subject to efforts directed toward their extermination, as well. In the middle of the war, the Nazis realized that they needed much more slave labor, which preserved the lives of some people.

    Further, WWII wasn't about the holocaust. Planning for "the Final Solution" began after the invasion of the Soviet Union and before the defeat of Stalingrad. However, killing Jews and Communists was part of the invasion plan.
  • Wheatley
    There are, in fact, two sides to the holocaust -- perpetrators on one side, victims on the other, but they are so closely connected one can not tell one part without the other. It's a serious quandary:Bitter Crank
    Yeah, but that news article had nothing to do with that. It's about a politically motivated move to counter critical race theory.
  • Bitter Crank
    Oops, didn't read the article very carefully.

    Well, never mind. Critical Race Theory (CRT) presents a different two-sided problem.

    On the one hand, Blacks and Native Americans Got the royal shaft from the beginning, and and the shafting continued for a long time. The White, English ruling class organized the shafting (slavery, dispossession, genocide).

    On the other hand, the White English working class (AKA, the poor) people were at best pawns. The English elite considered the working class to be trash, basically. White trash. (Up until the Revolution, people living in the American colonies were English.)

    Fast forward from 1620 (the Mayflower landed) to 2021, and many white people (most of whom are working class) do not feel they are responsible for the sins of the past. Their ancestors were in no sense "in charge of the country's affairs", or their ancestors had not even landed on these shores. Slavery was a feature of ruling class life; for the most part, in the south; True, there were ruling class or wealthy merchants (upper middle class) White people in the North who facilitated and financed the southern agricultural slave system. The working class was not able to afford slaves.

    Karl Marx noted that if one had a choice between hiring an Irishman or using a slave to fix a barn roof, it made more sense to hire the Irish worker. If the Irishman fell off the roof and died, the plantation owner would not be out a dime. If a slave fell off the roof and died, there was a significant financial loss. White workers were not worth much.

    In the last 70 years, many White working class people accumulated more wealth than Blacks. Not a lot more, but some. (If you subtract debt from assets, most working class people--white or black--own nothing outright.

    The sufferings of Blacks and Native Americans were / are real. No doubt. So are the sufferings of the the white working class.

    There is no doubt that blacks have been discriminated against through legislation and government outlays. If some white working class people were beneficiaries, they were not the authors of the benefit. Working class people were not the authors of racially discriminatory legislation or biased government spending, either.

    CRT does not want to accept with the defining power of the ruling class, so White people in general become the problem, and their problem is that they MUST be racist because they are perceived to be better off than most blacks.

    The White people who are better off than blacks are the beneficiaries of accumulated inheritance. When White working class people were able to get ahead, they were often enough able to pass that on to the next generation. Century farms -- land that has been in the same family for 100 years and longer -- is an example of accumulation through inheritance. So are the houses built under the FHA program after WWII. But none of this relatively small wealth was gained without a lot of work (farming, jobs, saving, frugality, etc.).

    The White ruling class interfered with potential wealth accumulate among Blacks, in just about every state. But again, the distinction of WHICH White group acted against Black interest.
  • Varde
    I'm changing my name to Varde or Zomne. Which is better? Are they classical enough for our society?
  • ArguingWAristotleTiff

    While walking in the valley of depression a small light appears in the distance and the thread hosted by one of my favorite attorneys and awesome friend :love:
  • Amity

    Extreme right-wing views and the wellness community are not an obvious pairing, but ‘conspirituality’ is increasingly pervasive. How did it all become so toxic?

    ...In 2011, sociologists Charlotte Ward and David Voas coined the term “conspirituality”. Ward defined it as “a rapidly growing web movement expressing an ideology fuelled by political disillusionment and the popularity of alternative worldviews”. It describes the sticky intersection of two worlds: the world of yoga and juice cleanses with that of New Age thinking and online theories about secret groups, covertly controlling the universe. It’s a place where you might typically see a vegan influencer imploring their followers to stick to a water fast rather than getting vaccinated, or a meditation instructor reminding her clients of the dangers of 5G, or read an Instagram comment explaining that vaccines are hiding tracking devices. It’s a place where the word “scamdemic” might comfortably run up the side of a pair of yoga pants (88% polyester, £40, also available in “Defund the Media” print, “World Hellth Organisation” and “Masked Sheeple”, in millennial pink)...

    ...One benefit of the rise of conspiracy theories is the rise of conspiracy-theory explainers. Dr Timothy Caulfield works tirelessly, occasionally with a note of weariness, to explain and debunk misinformation. He’s studied the subject for decades, but has never seen it taken as seriously as it is right now; the World Health Organisation is calling this an “infodemic”. “The toleration of wellness pseudoscience has helped to fuel the current situation,” he says. The key to changing minds is to debunk it before it takes on an ideological spin...

    ...Mental illness is not uncommon in conspiracy theorists. In February, the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism reported that over two-thirds of the 31 QAnon followers who’d been charged around the January insurrection in Washington, DC experienced severe mental health conditions.

  • Amity
    From same Guardian article:

    One night, Melissa Rein Lively saw a meme: an image of Polish Jews being put on a train in 1939, edited so they were wearing face masks. The caption said: “First they put you in the masks, then they put you in the box cars.” The granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, she says, “It was the most disturbing image I think I have ever seen. Everything I was learning and everything I have ever been afraid of connected in a way that convinced me that at least some semblance of what I was reading was true.” She was becoming convinced that nothing was really what it seemed; that there was a carefully constructed narrative being told, which was designed to control society. “I was willing to expand my thinking and consider a completely alternative theory, especially during a time of unprecedented chaosGuardian

    Scary. How easy it is to unbalance minds...
  • baker
    Scary. How easy it is to unbalance minds...Amity

    To unbalance a mind, it would first need to be balanced.
  • Amity
    Scary. How easy it is to unbalance minds...
    — Amity

    To unbalance a mind, it would first need to be balanced.

    Yeah. And how many of us have a balanced mind ?
    So easy to influence...to slide up or down; left or right...to the extremes.
    Who is it that takes more advantage of that. I wonder...to achieve dastardly deeds.
    Piling BS on top of BS...

    The key to changing minds is to debunk it before it takes on an ideological spin...Guardian

    How easy is that ?
  • Amity
    Following @Shawn''s discussion

    For anyone interested, Stoic Week starts online tomorrow !

    Stoic Week is an annual event that invites you to ‘live like a Stoic for a week’. It is run online and is completely free. Since 2012 over 25,000 people have signed up for Stoic Week. Participants complete a questionnaire before starting and another at the end that enable us to assess how much following Stoic life guidance has benefitted you. To date the results have consistently shown that people who participate see a reduction in negative emotions— Stoic Week starts Mon 18th October

  • Shawn
    Wallow wallow...
  • Amity

    Wallow wallow...Shawn

    Or you can read the theme for Stoic Week:

    Stoicism and Wellbeing.

    A whole world might open up, or not...
    At least, it's free with pdf Handbook etc, etc...
    Have just registered and stuff has been there for a week already !!!
  • Shawn
  • Amity

    That :flower: free for me too :wink:
  • Shawn

    :blush: :party:

    Stoic party!
  • Amity

    Good to go :monkey:
  • Bitter Crank
    We Geezers are cranky because...

    a) gravity
    b) the unbearable spinning cosmos
    c) decreased muscle strength causes us to lose our grips and increases our gripes
    d) severe disappointment because we were young and stupid once and now the young are stupid again.
    e) everything else
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