• Bitter Crank
    5.9k
    'There is no joy in the tavern as on the road thereto'dog

    As St. Catherine of Siena put it, "All the way to heaven is heaven."
  • Noble Dust
    3k


    Ok, so, expand here:

    But you are missing the point of how I phrased it.schopenhauer1
  • Noble Dust
    3k


    And please, bringing up 10 years experience is obviously not a 100% innocent ploy. Don't placate me with histrionics.
  • dog
    89
    Ah yes, those oxcytocin feelings of love.. that doesn't last, is not sustained, life moves forward, the novelty wears off. In fact, it is these type of enthrallments that beget more life which brings more instrumental existence on a new person.schopenhauer1

    What comes to my mind is the way that lust/curiosity transforms (with compatibility) into what's called love: trust, friendship, warmth rather than excitement. The woman well known and much loved gets cast to some degree as a mother. She's no longer the unknown frontier. Her body might be great, but it's no longer a wonderland for him. It's territory that only becomes exciting within the act or when possession is threatened. (Jealousy sex is psychedelic.) (Yeah, it's occurred to me that I might just be an endlessly ambivalent jerk. Nevertheless, I think I speak from 10 above average quality years of marital experience. Folks is complex in they minds.)

    The friendship can be great, but it's not quite like a great friendship with another man. You have to argue with this chick about how to arrange the household and where and how to be. It's like democracy. It's the least worst system perhaps. Sometimes it's paradise. You look over at her to see her reaction to some good TV. Instead of staring at one another, you look out on the world together.

    Doesn't have to lead to children, but of course for many it does. I'll let others speak of the satisfactions and frustrations of parenthood. I do love petting the silly bitch who sleeps on my couch. (I don't mean my wife. She doesn't sleep on the couch.)
  • dog
    89
    As St. Catherine of Siena put it, "All the way to heaven is heaven."Bitter Crank

    Nice.
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k
    And please, bringing up 10 years experience is obviously not a 100% innocent ploy. Don't placate me with histrionics.Noble Dust

    You are getting unpleasant and troll-like at this point. What do you want from me, sir? There is no innocent ploy... just that as far as these forums are concerned, my positions are fairly consistent. It doesn't have to do with experience, just how long I've been saying similar points of view.

    As far as your question about expanding on my phrasing.. I said earlier:

    Whether life is a loaded question is something prior to me asking about it.

    So the thread is "What do you live for everyday".. Yes, I think there is an answer, and perhaps I had something in mind along the lines of instrumentality. I thought you essentially had it right with your first paragraph there. As far as the second one that we have been circling, I don't really understand. Based on the consistency of your other threads, I would think you are mostly in agreement, but perhaps you also are showing disagreement for the sake of getting some dialectic out of me. You want something from me, that I am not providing, I don't know.. so again, what is it you want from me?
  • Agustino
    11.1k
    10+ years on this and the previous forumschopenhauer1
    Oh dear, you've been saying the same things for 10+ years like a broken record? >:O
  • Noble Dust
    3k
    You are getting unpleasant and troll-like at this point.schopenhauer1

    Right, suggesting your motives aren't 100% pure for bringing up your 10+ years experience on the forums is certainly troll-like behavior.

    Based on the consistency of your other threads,schopenhauer1

    Wait, you've read my threads, none of which I can remember you responding to, but you think I'm in agreement with your overall position? That's definitely not correct.

    You want something from me, that I am not providing, I don't know.. so again, what is it you want from me?schopenhauer1

    What I want is a point-by-point defense of your nihilistic views.
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k
    Oh dear, you've been saying the same things for 10+ years like a broken record? >:OAgustino

    I did say consistent right? Hey, you may have a protege, it looks like your style here :p.
  • Noble Dust
    3k
    Hey, you may have a protege, it looks like your style here :p.schopenhauer1

    Ok, no. Agustino has a lot to learn from me, not the other way around.
  • Agustino
    11.1k
    a protegeschopenhauer1
    Which protegé I have many, you being just one of them >:O

    I did say consistent right?schopenhauer1
    >:O >:O >:O did you not get bored for 10 years to be saying the same thing? I mean one understands for 1 year, 2 years, maybe even 3! But for 10+ years?! Even a boring person would get bored. Not to mention that your efforts had a 0% success rate! Imagine! Toiling for 10+ years, and no followers to show for it!
  • Agustino
    11.1k
    Ok, no. Agustino has a lot to learn from me, not the other way around.Noble Dust
    You should bless me with your wisdom then :D
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k

    Hey, futility is my theme, so why not.
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k
    Right, suggesting your motives aren't 100% pure for bringing up your 10+ years experience on the forums is certainly troll-like behavior.Noble Dust

    I'm not saying your trolling- just "troll-like" behavior.. Something to rile for the sake of riling.

    Wait, you've read my threads, none of which I can remember you responding to, but you think I'm in agreement with your overall position? That's definitely not correct.Noble Dust

    Honestly, I'm just remembering a thread where we discussed suicide. Just a note, I do not usually identify as nihilist, but a philosophical pessimist of sorts, as nihilism has too many meanings depending on context. Philosophical Pessimism and association with Schopenhauer is more up my alley.

    What I want is a point-by-point defense of your nihilistic views.Noble Dust

    Was your second paragraph about me making a point-by-point defense of nihilism? I've said plenty, and can copy and paste a number of things I would probably be repeating. So, why don't we change it up. Why don't YOU state a position, and we can go from there. You started to with your nice paragraph about labels and such at which I agreed. But if you have a point that you would like to make, make it.
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k
    What comes to my mind is the way that lust/curiosity transforms (with compatibility) into what's called love: trust, friendship, warmth rather than excitement. The woman well known and much loved gets cast to some degree as a mother. She's no longer the unknown frontier. Her body might be great, but it's no longer a wonderland for him. It's territory that only becomes exciting within the act or when possession is threatened. (Jealousy sex is psychedelic.) (Yeah, it's occurred to me that I might just be an endlessly ambivalent jerk. Nevertheless, I think I speak from 10 above average quality years of marital experience. Folks is complex in they minds.)

    The friendship can be great, but it's not quite like a great friendship with another man. You have to argue with this chick about how to arrange the household and where and how to be. It's like democracy. It's the least worst system perhaps. Sometimes it's paradise. You look over at her to see her reaction to some good TV. Instead of staring at one another, you look out on the world together.

    Doesn't have to lead to children, but of course for many it does. I'll let others speak of the satisfactions and frustrations of parenthood. I do love petting the silly bitch who sleeps on my couch. (I don't mean my wife. She doesn't sleep on the couch.)
    dog

    Day in day out...Granted, better with a significant other, but still the same instrumental existence. You had it more accurate with moving of furniture than the starry-eyed narrative. Not to mention, relationships cause a lot of strife- getting them, keeping them, maintaining them, losing them. This falls under contingent suffering- some people are more fortunate than others in many "goods" of life. Who is to say what new person brought into the world will have more of these goods or very few. Either way, the repetitious nature of our striving wills cause no lasting satisfaction, just a new object of striving.
  • dog
    89
    Day in day out...Granted, better with a significant other, but still the same instrumental existence.schopenhauer1

    Is it better? I can't compare anymore. I don't remember being single very well. Different comforts, different discomforts.

    Either way, the repetitious nature of our striving wills cause no lasting satisfaction, just a new object of striving.schopenhauer1

    Indeed, no satisfaction lasts. Nor any pain. There is no substance. Everything is smoke and music. Waves of Heaven, waves of Hell, waves of Blah.

    For each wave its voices and philosophy. The Hell wave sings a song of anti-natalism. The Heaven wave sings a song of reproduction and passing the torch. The Blah wave sings this song of waves and their singing, neutral on the matter.
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k
    For each wave its voices and philosophy. The Hell wave sings a song of anti-natalism. The Heaven wave sings a song of reproduction and passing the torch. The Blah wave sings this song of waves and their singing, neutral on the matter.dog

    But there doesn't have to be waves in the first place. Why should we experience the waves?
  • dog
    89
    But there doesn't have to be waves in the first place. Why should we experience the waves?schopenhauer1

    Why be born? Why leave early once we are born? We can dig for reasons. My point is that these are the voices of moods. If I get disgusted with life, then I'll agree with you. If things turn sweet again, that why will have a largely ineffable answer. And you won't believe the words that I do find. Not unless you are also lifted by a mood.

    I have read bad-mood-writing in a good mood and the reverse. It's illuminating. Every passion has a philosophy. Life-love, death-love. If a mood lasts long enough, we begin to believe in substance again. We think that we are simpler than we are and more fixed. (So it seems to me.)
  • schopenhauer1
    1.9k
    My point is that these are the voices of moods. If I get disgusted with life, then I'll agree with you. If things turn sweet again, that why will have a largely ineffable answer. And you won't believe the words that I do find. Not unless you are also lifted by a mood.

    I have read bad-mood-writing in a good mood and the reverse. It's illuminating. Every passion has a philosophy. Life-love, death-love. If a mood lasts long enough, we begin to believe in substance again. We think that we are simpler than we are and more fixed. (So it seems to me.)
    dog

    Do you think it is short sighted to think that the good moods mean that life must be good? Can evaluation be separated from mood? If not, why not? Why is it that new people should experience life? Because you are in a good mood? Does mood justify bringing new people in existence? What is the point of more people experiencing life? If my premise is life is survival, comfort, finding entertainment- why should those things be experienced by yet a new person? This is just in reference to structural suffering (see previous posts for definition).

    How about contingent harms? This would be the classical Western view of "good experience' and "bad experience". Why do the good experiences make up for the bad ones? What about the unforeseen bad experiences? What about the variables of people's psyches, physiology and circumstances that make some people prone to worse experiences than others?
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