• BlueBanana
    493
    You can't deny that the altruist is happy to be one.TheMadFool

    Can't I? I'll call this self-destructive altruism: altruistic behaviour with negative effect to one's happiness and/or well-being.
  • BlueBanana
    493
    You haven't answered my point about us being more motivated by our inner moral codes than by external incentives set by, for example, society.
  • TheMadFool
    1.9k
    Can't I? I'll call this self-destructive altruism: altruistic behaviour with negative effect to one's happiness and/or well-being.BlueBanana

    There can be no such thing. You know it.
  • TheMadFool
    1.9k
    How is altruism the perfect state of goodness? I agree that it is itself, selfish. I just don't understand how it is perfect goodnessMonfortS26

    What then is an example of perfect goodness?
  • Pseudonym
    129
    So, doesn't that mean that people are inherently bad?TheMadFool

    Why have you concluded anything inherent from your observations and understanding of the last few thousand years of the modern human race's 200,000 year history? It seems a bit of a jump to say that because in agri-industrial civilisations we break laws and fail to pursue good, that we must be inherently evil. Such societies have only existed for the last 6,000 years or so. The remaining 194,000 years we spent in a completely different societal structure about which we have very little by way of historical record.

    It just seems a bit counter-intuitive, you obviously think that our current behaviour is bad, so does pretty much everyone (at least the aspects of it you describe), does that not advise at least first testing out the theory that we've simply gone wrong somewhere, rather than damning the entire race?
  • BlueBanana
    493
    There can be no such thing. You know it.TheMadFool

    Yes there can, and no I don't. Are you claiming slef-destructive behaviour in general doesn't exist?
  • MonfortS26
    208
    Can't I? I'll call this self-destructive altruism: altruistic behaviour with negative effect to one's happiness and/or well-being.BlueBanana

    Is there any instance of altruism that doesn't lead to some form of short term or long term happiness? Yes, altruism can be detrimental to one's well-being in the long run but I highly doubt any level of altruism exists that doesn't produce some amount of pleasure in the brain.

    You haven't answered my point about us being more motivated by our inner moral codes than by external incentives set by, for example, society.BlueBanana

    Where do your 'inner' moral codes come from if not society?

    What then is an example of perfect goodness?TheMadFool

    There isn't one, but the closest you can come to 'perfect goodness' is dedicating every action to the most productive ways of increasing the net happiness of humanity.

    Yes there can, and no I don't. Are you claiming slef-destructive behaviour in general doesn't exist?BlueBanana

    I don't think there is any self-destructive behavior that doesn't provide pleasure in the short term.
  • TheMadFool
    1.9k
    Yes there can, and no I don't. Are you claiming slef-destructive behaviour in general doesn't exist?BlueBanana

    Whose values are you using? ''Self-destructive'' behavior only for an observer, not the subject itself. An alcoholic/addict enjoys his habit. It is only to others, with different values, that they appear self-destructive.
  • TheMadFool
    1.9k
    There isn't one, but the closest you can come to 'perfect goodness' is dedicating every action to the most productive ways of increasing the net happiness of humanity.MonfortS26

    Isn't this altruism?
  • BlueBanana
    493
    No, that could be prioritizing the well-being of others before yours.
  • MonfortS26
    208
    Isn't this altruism?TheMadFool

    I guess you may have a point. But I think the reason to live a 'purely good' life in that sense is more narcissistic than altruistic. Is it truly selfless to do those things?
  • MonfortS26
    208
    I guess I just have a problem with the word altruism in the same sense that I have a problem with the word soul. They are innately flawed concepts to me and their usage doesn't really align with my perception of reality. I'd much rather use philanthropy to describe my definition of a 'purely good' life. It doesn't necessarily promote the idea of 'selflessness' the way that altruism does
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