It will take more than that. Perhaps by looking at why the education system itself fails pupils.
Using punishment measures including exclusions and isolation booths for bad behaviour.
Exclusions are not a punishment or a deterrent: they’re a day off school.

Excluding pupils for a long period of time means they miss valuable teaching time and are immediately put at a disadvantage — Amity

Agree! To be honest with you Amity, I never understood what a punishment in school actually means. When I was in school most of the teachers punished me without free hour because I was bad at maths. This created a trauma in numbers developing a low self-esteem on me in terms of mathematics. Sometimes I think they school failed on me because they did not want me as good math student at all.

I guess the key could be a class with zero punishment. If teachers start listening more to their students the tables could turn on. The ethics class should be prepared as a gift. Every classmate have to go to understand how to be a decent person. This is not depend on good grades or marks.
If the kids learn languages and maths since they are kids why don't teach them to some ethical values?

A very raw person might actually prefer a bodily confrontation to endless discussions. — Heiko

This a problem we have to face then. This is why I want to develop a criteria where probably ethics can lead us in a more pacific relationship. Despite the fact most of the people want confrontation, doesn't mean endless discussions are clueless or worthless. To be honest I defend if we develop more dialogues probably we would limit or avoid wars, riots, chaos, etc...

Tom, I think you could like this following page where it shows what (more or less) I want to get about: Prudence, Goodness and Wisdom.

What specific ideas would help and how? What is your evidence that these ideas make a difference? — Tom Storm

To be honest I do not have any evidence is these ideas make a difference. It is just a belief. I only want to improve our educational system with the goal of avoiding violence so I thought Buddhism or Taoism would be a good starting point because most of the people who follow this paths tend to be pacific.
Probably, it could help, but I don't put it on practice yet. It is only a dream.

, it might be better to teach/model the benefits of community and cooperation. — Tom Storm

Agree! With this teaching tool probably we would avoid selfish and dangerous people in the society. But please, I still defend we have to provide kids how bad is a toxic behavior along the classmates...

And how specifically would they help in the West? — Tom Storm

I guess it can help in the West because it develops our paradigm. We can learn through Asian philosophy that there are other paths to grow up as a good person, or at least civic one.
Sometimes I feel most of the students do not understand about Greek or Roman culture. This is why we don't have many thinkers...
What about if we expand our paradigm getting involved in Taoism or Confucius? Probably can help a little bit.

______________________________________________
The Master said, "Acquired by unrighteousness,
wealth and rank are to me as a floating cloud."

Confucius, Analects XVII:15/16, translation after James Legge [1893], Arthur Waley [1938], and D.C. Lau [1979]

being a dreamer! — TheMadFool

Thank you so much! I have in mind many weird aspects about "changing the world" but I end up unmotivated due to how drastic and cruel the world can be.

you have to participate in a system that essentially incentivises you to get ahead at any cost? — ChatteringMonkey

Agree! Then, this is why we are failing as a civic society because the “system” teaches us how to be so destructive in our environment. The rule here is Homo homini lupus. We all met someone in our university or work who is literally a lone wolf who doesn’t care if he/she sacrifices you for anything.

This is why I think the issue goes further than just educational system (which obviously is an important pillar) but what if we try of restart our establishment? Sounds impossible but I think is better late than never. I don’t see the benefits of being selfish and violent in this contemporary Era. It is time to come backs to easier times where the duty was happiness.

Are we so primitive that we are the equivalent of tribal natives waiting being invaded by intergalactic conquistador? — SteveMinjares

I guess you would like to read the theory of “dark forest” in the context you are asking for: https://www.google.es/amp/s/techcrunch.com/2019/01/20/technologys-dark-forest/amp/

My intention was not emphasize Asian philosophy over a Western one. Those were just examples of how we can develop ethics inside society and then probably we would get lower violence/hate rates.

Keep in mind that if we study closer the western philosophy we can be so technical that people who not cares about philosophy will end up misunderstood. I guess the key here is try to be the simplest to enter in the young’s minds (example, students between 15 and 18 years old)

It doesn’t matter at all the academic religion because this issue is for professionals of philosophy. I mean teaching the basic principles using both Asian and Western philosophy and I believe it can fit...
I remember in my school my philosophy teacher never told me anything about Tao Te Ching neither Confucius.

Another one:

Isn't it shù?" , "What you do not want yourself," , "Don't do to others."
Confucianism in a single moral principle? This is about , "consideration" or "reciprocity"
This is the Golden Rule with negatives, and so sometimes is called the "Silver Rule." However, it may be better with the negatives. "Do onto others," could mean that masochists are justified in being sadists. This version, merely negative, is more in the right spirit of morality, which is to prohibit harmful and unjust actions

What is your philosophy which sees you through ? — Amity

Probably it would sound quite basic but Taoism and Confucius helped me out in this issue.
For example, this analetcs of Confucius, developed on me a criteria in ethics.

1. The master said: Isn't that of consideration? What you don't want for yourself, don't do it to others. Key aspects on Confucius.

Taoism:

Verse 104: "When the way prevails, fleet-footed horses are relegated to ploughing the fields; when the way does not prevail in the empire, war-horses breed on the border." Taoism

I know this analetcs are free to interpret but somehow I feel like Asian philosophy is there to provide peace and happiness.
Also, we should not forget about Siddhartha Gautama and buddishm:" Ah, love, let us be true
To one another! for the world, which seems
To lie before us like a land of dreams,
So various, so beautiful, so new,
Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,
Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;
And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night" The basics teachings of Buddhism.

I think this thread is another good example of how important is to avoid religion in our purpose to develop philosophy and ethics.

We all already know that this war is just religious and ethnic issues. It does not matter at all which are the facts or arguments of both Israel and Palestinian. The only truth here is all dead citizens. Probably you would be angry at politicians thinking why they do not do anything at all. Well they are just masks and actors so we have to start in the point where we should not expect anything from them. But why they want to divide us afterwards? I think it is an act of negligence from a public representation.

Everything is wrong in this context because there are a lot of lives depending in some buffets or offices. Why the people with this amount of power do not spread empathy and ethics? Since the moment they would not do anything to us, it is time to reach our own path to developing a better educational system. Only in this way we will avoid difficult situations as the war between Israel and Palestinians.

Thanks Amity for this reply.

The sad truth of society, people don't listen to philosophers and arguments, but listen to demagogues and slogans. And if we let this happen once, the most awful people will take advantage of our naivety, and gullibility. — Art Stoic Spirit

Good one :up: this shows how our modern society works...

Which philosophy helps us do this ? Perhaps insights from stoicism or pragmatism... — Amity

I understand this point but I think we don't need be so necessarily academic. I guess the point is provide to people a good quality in ethics to just develop the basic points of civics. If a few of them want to be more technical, then here is where we bring up the academics papers or researchers.
It is fine if they end up knowing that violence is not the solution in the path of human relations.

Another educational resource:
Fear and Paradoxes of War — Amity

Thanks for sharing it :up:

It starts by looking at the self. The mind. I think. — Amity

Yes it does I am agree with you. Sometimes I have the feeling that I am a part of big mass which orientes me how I should live by. I even make the mistake of forgetting what is the path of happiness according to my own circumstances.
Whenever I look deeply to myself I get a double dilemma: everybody is wrong or I am wrong because I see the life and the individuals so drastically different from how "supposedly" the world does.
I feel sick when I see violence (As Alex in the famous book and film "A clockwork orange") but somehow there are an important who loves it or even feel sexually attracted to it.
I feel the world is sick and the unique vaccine is ethics and a solid educational system.

what we can do to face violence? what are the solutions to make peacefull world? — Zekkari Mohamed

I know this thread is old but it is so necessary to put it on the table. It is crazy how the violence increased drastically in the recent years. A group of teenagers killed another citizen of 24 years old just for a simple discussion. Also a group of Dutch citizens murdered another one from their country just because was “fun” getting involved in a riot or fighting against strangers.

I am feeling we are losing as a civilized world because most of the young groups see the violence as a funny issue. There are a lot of hate in the ambient, from the politicians to the social media. We have to stop it immediately. I think we have to reconsider how our educational system is working because I feel is fading away. I would sound totalitarian but I guess ethics should be more important at schools than religion.
One of the main goals should be teach to kids how outrageous is the violence and how important is respect other people’s lives and integrity. If we do not do so we will continue having a lot of disgraces and probably a WWIII. The language and discourse of the public representatives is bad. Only spread words to make conflicts. It remembers me of the new PM of Perú, Castillo, whose first discourse was attacking Spanish for no reasons or just past issues in conquista. I don’t understand why these politicians want to divide us but we have to learn how to avoid their toxic discourse and share empathy through our relationships.

A confederacy of dunces by John Kennedy Toole.
Essay about the Greeks by Friedrich Nietzsche.

Despite the fact I have zero likes so a weak reputation, I think it is a good system because it shows the quality of a user. I remember when under the username appeared the total amount of posts and I guess this system just puts out how active you are but not the worth.

I am interested in to understand metaphysics more specifically. So, my question in simple, which is the properly definition of metaphysics? How many academies worked on it along the centuries ?

Interesting point of view and life experience. It would sound weird but I was raised in an atheist home... My parents never taught me any kind of religion and I went only to secular schools. Nevertheless, they never imposed me atheism at all because they said I was free to believe if I wanted to.
Anyhow, despite my grow experience, I never been interested in religion for myself... But yes probably my parents were important in this path of being free thinker.

Via experiences — Bylaw

I respect your beliefs and opinions but how you can experience something that you never seen or heard or even touched before as "God"?
I guess this is why sometimes you can have these periods of doubt.

Hello Elucid! I think your question can fit in the answer of Aristotle's theory of motion (Aristotle )

Motion," says Aristotle, "is the actualization of what potentially
is"

W. D. Ross writes:
For Aristotle "motion is 'the actualization of that which is potentially, as such.' I.e. if there is something which is actually x and potentially
y, motion is the making actual of its y-ness."

I do understand your point/argument from an ethical point of view but sadly, pharmacies and overall pharmacology are lobbies which create a lot of money to politicians or at least to the leviathan (Hobbes’s leviathan )

Here we have an interesting ethical dilemma about how the role of pharmacies could change:
A) the government control the prices of medicines. Somehow this method or criteria will be thought as “communist” rule of law. So most of the entrepreneurs and lobbies will not accept it.
B) pure savage capitalism. Can’t you buy a medicine or COVID vaccine? Sorry is your fault… we are not guilty of your poverty (they would think…)
C) sorry but it is not third way. We can’t get a middle pattern where both pharmacies and citizens win. Can we here agree that pharmacies are important lobbies who act silently?

Whenever we argue about ethical dilemmas always appear a pharmacy issue where related to controlling medication.

I wish I can keep «zero» as my number in the name. Zero means infinite or metaphysics for some philosophers. Absence perception and the philosophy of zero

Basically, the best book on ethics is An Empty Book — TheMadFool

Keep it in my next book list too :up:

What Every Man Thinks About Apart from Sex. — TheMadFool

This title makes me feel so interested in the book right now. I don't know why but I guess I thought literally this for years. Fortunately, I am one of those weird "freaks" who loves think or speak about everything except/apart sex.

Do you have links in English to those cases against inditex and zara? Could be a blueprint for more. — Benkei

I want to share with you three important links.

http://www.izquierdadiario.es/De-explotar-costureras-gallegas-a-ninos-en-Bangladesh-el-secreto-de-Inditex-y-Amancio-Ortega

Sorry the one above is in Spanish but trust me is so worthy to have it because it explains so good how Inditex is guilty of slavery. Try to translate the page with Google translator.

https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/zara-hit-by-slave-labour-allegations-argentina/
This one is in English but it comes from Argentina.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/english.elpais.com/elpais/2019/05/21/inenglish/1558430833_506530.html%3foutputType=amp

This one also in English where political party "Podemos" is against Inditex.

So I've just written to an electronics review site to start including information about sourcing of materials and start taking human rights abuses into account when awarding rewards. — Benkei

Interesting and good one! China is powerful (and probably unstoppable in some countries of Africa and America...) due to this development of "cheap" electronic devices where all the rich entrepreneurs go just to build with zero costs. I see you are interested if we can block or at least penalized China, I guess the European Union has to do something better and be brave against Xi Jinping threats.
Here in Spain, a political party called "Podemos" put a warrant against Zara and Inditex for having their industries in China, Bangladesh, India, etc... Trying to make them put it on Spain or an European country. I don't know how is going but at least Zara paid a huge amount of money by the penalty of having those companies in these countries.
Also, interesting fact, "Real Institute El Cano" which is responsible for the Spanish image and language along the world, is trying to make "again" good relationships between Spain and Hispanoamerica because they see how silently China is getting more deeply in the economies of countries like Mexico, Paraguay, Ecuador, Honduras, etc...
While the new prime of Minister of Ecuador wants to work with Spain and Europe, Daniel Ortega as Prime Minister of Nicaragua, wants to be with China. I guess Nicaragua will have a bad future in the coming years...

Aristotle: Nichomachean Ethics. — Amalac

I read it three years ago and it is one of the best philosophy books I ever read :up:

:up: :fire: Thanks

Don't whatever you do read Spinoza's Ethics. It has no ethics in it. — bert1

I don't like any of Spinoza's works. He is not a philosopher or thinker to trust about :rofl:

essays, I think his In Praise of Idleness — Manuel

Thank you for this recommendation because I was looking exactly of something like an essay. I going to check it out and see what holds. :up:

Wow, a Korean Philology teacher in Madrid, and wrote poetry in Spanish? Sounds interesting. — Corvus

He also translated Don Quixote to Korean. What an intellectual man!

Ortega y Gassett, along with Albert Camus & James Baldwin, was one my earliest intellectual influences. :death: — 180 Proof

Agreed. Ortega y Gasset is a very special thinker. I am Spanish as him and somehow I feel the same impotences in terms of culture and the decadence of our homeland...

The name sounds like Korean. A Korean poet? — Corvus

Exactly, it is Korean but surprisingly, this book was written in Spanish because back in the day Yong-Tae Min was a philologist teacher in Madrid.

Currently reading: Los contrabandistas vascos by Pío Baroja.

Plan to read:

Theories of ethics by Philippa Foot.
The rain lasts eleven years by Yong-Tae Min (Poems).
España invertebrada by Ortega y Gasset.

Thank you for these recommendations.:up:

Natural Goodness, Philippa Foot

Interesting how Philippa Foot was so specialist in Ethics. I see her name everywhere when this topic is related.

Thank you so much for your recommendation. I going to check out more deeply about it and try to buy it.

Sometimes it's hard to tell because certain posters tend to intertwine the two, thus trying to get away with a criticism while presenting a legitimate argument. Why not just stick to the argument? Wouldn't criticism be rhetorical bullshit to cause consternation? Is unnecessarily poisoning the well a legitimate argument tactic? — schopenhauer1

It is a legitimate action and argument but the main goal here, inside in this forum, is how to attract people to debate. Sometimes I don’t even have answers in the posts. So, it doesn’t matter if you insult if you keep the thread alive to be honest

and I'll leave one of them — unenlightened

Thanks for sharing. Looks so interesting. I am going to check it out :cheer:

You ever wish you could read all your books and all the ones that everyone else on here posts also? :chin: — Pantagruel

That would be so awesome. Also I made a goal to myself try to read at least one book from a Nobel prize winner. I find it interesting :sweat:

Haven't heard very good things about Killing Commendatore, so I'm very hesitant to read it... — Manuel

Me neither! Because Murakami has an extent collection of books. In my case, I will give it a chance to Colorless Tsukuru Tazaki and His Years of Pilgrimage the title looks so interesting so I decided purchasing it.